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Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

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Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#121

Post by rayiner »

acchow wrote: post #108
tstactplsignore wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Whether it's for the better or worse simply doesn't matter Yikes- I have only a little sympathy for the taxi industry, but it is very scary that you do not believe we should be concerned with whether market forces improve society or not. I think it is extremely important to the vast majority of people that any enormous change in transportation occurs for the benefit of society - the ideology that capitalism is an en…

> I think it is extremely important to the vast majority of people that any enormous change in transportation occurs for the benefit of society There's a lot of people who would disagree with you. They are called libertarians. What matters first and foremost is freedom - individual freedoms should not be overridden for the sake of improving society.

Libertarians (at least, ones that aren't the anarchist kind) don't believe in freedom. They believe in property rights, which are by definition an encumberance on freedom. (The difference between mere possession and a property right is that the latter is enforced through the government's monopoly on violence.)

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#122

Post by ams6110 »

basseq wrote: post #3

I'm left wondering... so what? The "personal transportation" market has massively changed. Whether it's for the better or worse simply doesn't matter . Veteran Chicago cabbie John Aikins,67, who is facing foreclosure on two medallions for which he owes more than $330,0000, said he has little hope that the industry can be saved. "It feels like the city is just watching us collapse," Aikins said. "Right now, there are…

Please don't quote by indenting. It's unreadable on mobile.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#124

Post by incongruity »

bitJericho wrote: post #62
incongruity wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And cities are free to regulate the ride sharing operators or reduce taxi medallion and tax costs to let them come back. The government fees/licensing restrictions are the only significant barrier to entry in the industry. Fix those and Uber/Lyft have competition in days.

They do regulate. Uber/Lyft flout the regulations...

Minimally in comparison to taxis - and some regulations are obeyed. A good example is the airport agreements in Chicago.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#125

Post by bpchaps »

thephyber wrote: post #85
nserrino wrote: post #25

I probably won't ever take a taxi again, but have some sympathy for the cab drivers who put their life savings in medallions. The city effectively promised them the exclusive right to give taxi rides, but didn't do anything about a non-medallion entity doing that same thing. They put hundreds of thousands of dollars into something meaningless.

> have some sympathy for the cab drivers who put their life savings in medallions Nope. Nope nope nope nope nope. They were speculators in a bubble market. It didn't matter what percentage of their life savings they used. If you feel sorry for someone who purchased a $300k taxi medallion which had an intrinsic value (the total value a medallion can be used for rental to taxi drivers over X years) which is far less, y…

Heh, that could be said about ANY bubble. You're entirely victim blaming here. Keep in mind that many, many, many of the people who become taxi drivers are from other countries and often speak little to no english. Many do it because of a simple lack of options in their complex scenarios.

Paired with taxi companies taking advantage of people in these situations, you're completely minimizing a complex problem. You should be focusing your aggression to them, NOT the drivers.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#126

Post by djsumdog »

basseq wrote: post #3

I'm left wondering... so what? The "personal transportation" market has massively changed. Whether it's for the better or worse simply doesn't matter . Veteran Chicago cabbie John Aikins,67, who is facing foreclosure on two medallions for which he owes more than $330,0000, said he has little hope that the industry can be saved. "It feels like the city is just watching us collapse," Aikins said. "Right now, there are…

That man took out a loan for a medallion, with the idea that he should be able to sell it once he retires. The medallion is now worthless. If Chicago cares about the cabbies, individual owners should be paid dollar for dollar the value of those medallions, even if no one else will buy them in the future.

(Does Chicago buy back the medallions, or do you have to have to sell them to someone else? Is the 300,000 the market value he paid to someone else, or is that what the city charges?)

The US government bailed out the banks in 2008, and all those people at the top got to keep their millions while so many people lost their homes (mostly due to fraud). These people watched their industry change while being locked into a sinking ship .. unable to do anything about it. These people need a bailout.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#127

Post by ams6110 »

wutbrodo wrote: post #98
CydeWeys wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Neither this nor the fact that the regulatory regime was horribly flawed change the fact that many drivers got screwed through no fault of their own because gov't policy was incompetent enough to create bad policy and fail to sustain it. There's an important clarification here: Taxi drivers did not get screwed. It's medallion owners that got screwed. Yes, some of the drivers actually own their medallion, but many (…

TL;DR: In an economy with government involvement as heavy as ours[1], it's ludicrous to claim that people should not only know the "true" value of something but know precisely when the gov't is going to decide that the market value should be allowed to revert to its "true" value. > Taxi drivers did not get screwed. It's medallion owners that got screwed Right, good catch, I wasn't thinking about that fact. That's not…

What is the "true" value of a taxi medallion, in a regulatory context where the government is setting the supply?

You can compute the present value of the total profit you can expect to earn (average fares less expenses including the medallion) and if it's less than what the medallion costs, the medallion is overpriced.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#128

Post by wizu »

djsumdog wrote: post #126
basseq wrote: post #3

I'm left wondering... so what? The "personal transportation" market has massively changed. Whether it's for the better or worse simply doesn't matter . Veteran Chicago cabbie John Aikins,67, who is facing foreclosure on two medallions for which he owes more than $330,0000, said he has little hope that the industry can be saved. "It feels like the city is just watching us collapse," Aikins said. "Right now, there are…

That man took out a loan for a medallion, with the idea that he should be able to sell it once he retires. The medallion is now worthless. If Chicago cares about the cabbies, individual owners should be paid dollar for dollar the value of those medallions, even if no one else will buy them in the future. (Does Chicago buy back the medallions, or do you have to have to sell them to someone else? Is the 300,000 the mar…

> If Chicago cares about the cabbies

That's the thing though, they don't. And why would they? These cabbies made a bet that the medallion would not lose value until they sold it, and they lost that bet. How is this different from any other small-time business going bankrupt?

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#129

Post by tcbawo »

acchow wrote: post #108
tstactplsignore wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Whether it's for the better or worse simply doesn't matter Yikes- I have only a little sympathy for the taxi industry, but it is very scary that you do not believe we should be concerned with whether market forces improve society or not. I think it is extremely important to the vast majority of people that any enormous change in transportation occurs for the benefit of society - the ideology that capitalism is an en…

> I think it is extremely important to the vast majority of people that any enormous change in transportation occurs for the benefit of society There's a lot of people who would disagree with you. They are called libertarians. What matters first and foremost is freedom - individual freedoms should not be overridden for the sake of improving society.

If Uber and Lyft cause the downfall of the taxicab industry, it would probably hurt some people without access to technology or in less serviced areas. But, somehow I think taxi services would rebound if Uber or Lyft started abusing their monopolies.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#130

Post by Shorel »

bitJericho wrote: post #26
tstactplsignore wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Whether it's for the better or worse simply doesn't matter Yikes- I have only a little sympathy for the taxi industry, but it is very scary that you do not believe we should be concerned with whether market forces improve society or not. I think it is extremely important to the vast majority of people that any enormous change in transportation occurs for the benefit of society - the ideology that capitalism is an en…

We'll see what you think of the cab industry when uber raises their prices by 3 times in order to become profitable, after the cabbies all gone.

Then a dozen smaller companies will pop up with similar services and cheaper prices.

The genie is out of the bottle.

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