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UK election: Conservatives lose majority

bbc.com

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Re: UK election: Conservatives lose majority

#151

Post by moomin »

nicoburns wrote: post #89
nostrademons wrote: post #81

Someone closer to the UK than me mind explaining why SNP lost so many seats, including several that seemed pretty safe? I thought that Scottish nationalism was on the rise after Brexit, with many people there wanting to remain within the EU. Why the sudden shift to the Tories there?

Scottish nationalism is still somewhat popular, but a lot of people voting for the SNP last time weren't actually voting for Scottish nationalism, but for a left party, an area in which Ed Milliband's labour was deemed to be lacking. The shift to the Tories can explained by: 1. The popularity of Ruth Davies, leader of the scotrish conservatives. 2. The left vote being split between the SNP and Labour, allowing the co…

Ruth Davies is the only person who had an unabashedly good night.

Well, her and Jean-Claude Juncker, who probably hasn't stopped laughing for the last 12 hours.

Re: UK election: Conservatives lose majority

#152

Post by sofaofthedamned »

nicoburns wrote: post #89
nostrademons wrote: post #81

Someone closer to the UK than me mind explaining why SNP lost so many seats, including several that seemed pretty safe? I thought that Scottish nationalism was on the rise after Brexit, with many people there wanting to remain within the EU. Why the sudden shift to the Tories there?

Scottish nationalism is still somewhat popular, but a lot of people voting for the SNP last time weren't actually voting for Scottish nationalism, but for a left party, an area in which Ed Milliband's labour was deemed to be lacking. The shift to the Tories can explained by: 1. The popularity of Ruth Davies, leader of the scotrish conservatives. 2. The left vote being split between the SNP and Labour, allowing the co…

Ruth Davidson has got to be the next Conservative leader, she's hardly put a foot wrong.

Re: UK election: Conservatives lose majority

#153

Post by ionised »

cm2187 wrote: post #82
isostatic wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lib Dems were crucified for their vital and successful minority partner in government for 10-15. The UK population wants a dictator, not a grown up concensus. This will be a Tory government with DUP support on confidence and supply

I don't know DUP. What is there view on surveillance?

They are ultra-conservatives. Have a guess.

Re: UK election: Conservatives lose majority

#154

Post by DanBC »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #55
buserror wrote: post #9

To me it demonstrates the mastery of the ruling class at strategy. Just the ticket when you plan to want to rule something as complicated as a country! Seriously, I'm completely apolitical, but this one is probably one of the worst strategic blunder, ever. Oh, perhaps that and Cameron's brexit gamble. And it feels exactly like that; they are just gambling with the future of the country, repeatedly, with just petty ob…

Honestly, I reckon May's decision was understandable. Great polling with a complex negotiation coming up - makes sense to establish a national convention consensus government and press on (regardless of that decision being a bad one or not). But she completely fluffed the campaign, to a ludicrous extent. She had a weak opposition and popular support, and seemed to make every possible attempt to run as poor as a campa…

> I'm nervous about this being spun as a victory for the left, which I'm already hearing. It's more of a collapse of the Tories.

But it is a victory for the left.

Before this election everyone thought Corbyn was a fucking joke - even his own party.

He ran a strong campaign and Labour got 40% of the vote.

Re: UK election: Conservatives lose majority

#155

Post by moomin »

peterlk wrote: post #8

What does this mean for Brexit? If Theresa May is kicked out, can/will it be declawed? Can it be reversed? Also, can someone explain to me the steps by which parties in Britain create coalitions (or whatever) and then put a new PM in place? I'm an American, so any reference to American politics is super helpful.

Tusk has said A50 can be cancelled. Irrespective of the correct legal interpretation, I think if the UK government wanted out of Brexit, they'd get it. This is still a pretty unlikely scenario, but not impossible.

I'm putting that qualification in because, frankly, no-one knows the answer since it's never been put to a court. Moreover, I don't think it will matter. What will matter is whether or not the political will exists to make it happen.

Re: UK election: Conservatives lose majority

#156

Post by DanBC »

sqldba wrote: post #86
matthewmacleod wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I reckon May's decision was understandable. Great polling with a complex negotiation coming up - makes sense to establish a national convention consensus government and press on (regardless of that decision being a bad one or not). But she completely fluffed the campaign, to a ludicrous extent. She had a weak opposition and popular support, and seemed to make every possible attempt to run as poor as a campa…

How is it a collapse for the Tories when they still have 48.5% of the vote? It seems pretty good to me - though I'm not familiar with English politics. (Serious Q not attacking)

They were running against a candidate who was widely thought to be a joke. They should have had a landslide win. Instead they lost seats, and they lost so many seats they no longer have enough of a majority to win, so we've got a hung parliament.

Re: UK election: Conservatives lose majority

#157

Post by matthewmacleod »

DanBC wrote: post #154
matthewmacleod wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I reckon May's decision was understandable. Great polling with a complex negotiation coming up - makes sense to establish a national convention consensus government and press on (regardless of that decision being a bad one or not). But she completely fluffed the campaign, to a ludicrous extent. She had a weak opposition and popular support, and seemed to make every possible attempt to run as poor as a campa…

> I'm nervous about this being spun as a victory for the left, which I'm already hearing. It's more of a collapse of the Tories. But it is a victory for the left. Before this election everyone thought Corbyn was a fucking joke - even his own party. He ran a strong campaign and Labour got 40% of the vote.

I don't think Corbyn ran a strong campaign, that's the point. The Conservatives handed the election to him on a silver platter, and the Labour Party still lost.

Re: UK election: Conservatives lose majority

#158

Post by ionised »

vacri wrote: post #100

What is it with the Brits and an inability to do elections right these days. First they screw up the proportional representation referendum. Then the Scots mistakenly choose Remain (which wasn't an error at the time, but became one with Brexit). Then they Brexited, ironically because they want more control and accountability but rejected prop rep. And now this shemozzle. The rest of the world should take away the UK'…

As a Brit I have observed a large section of the population seem to suffer from an acute and decades-long case of Stockholm Syndrome.

Much of the populace would prefer to suffer the indignities and gradual erosion of prosperity and civil liberties inflicted on them by their ruling classes than to risk an uncertain future on a potential change.

They are comfortable in their mistreatment.

Re: UK election: Conservatives lose majority

#159

Post by knopkop »

giomasce wrote: post #111

I am not British nor familiar with British politics. Is there any article that tries to explain the reasons behind what happened? Labours were something like 20% behind when the vote was called, but went close to winning yesterday.

Anecdote - There wasn't any particular party that I wanted to vote for. My vote was against the Tories in protest of having to give up essential liberties for a bit of temporary safety.

Re: UK election: Conservatives lose majority

#160

Post by flukus »

lostlogin wrote: post #135
flukus wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crimea kind of did that. They were conquered by Russia ~200 years ago, won independence with the Ukraine and then wanted to rejoin with Russia.

This is a slightly one eyed view of what's going on. What would you call the related events in Ukraine? There are plenty of other invasions that have been called reunifications or similar. Attacking a neighbour is quite different to a two state, democratic decision to join.

The bottom line is that most crimeans were in favour of reunification with Russian. The Ukraine government consistently blocked them from voting on the matter.

Putin doesn't do much I'd agree with, but I think he was the good guy here.

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