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Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#131

Post by adamlett »

wvenable wrote: post #117
eridius wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you're trying to say that Google's answer is better, right? Google's certainly being more authoritative, but the answer to your question is actually fairly subjective, there's more answers than just "Edam", so IMO surfacing search results is better than just having Google pick one answer. Google's also been known to produce completely incorrect "authoritative" answers.

If you are speaking to your device for this kind of question, the authoritative answer is what you want. You expect me, after taking to my device, to go over and pick it up and search through web results? If I wanted to do that, I wouldn't have asked the question by voice in the first place!

The authoratative, wrong answer is what I want? Or, what if I ask, say, which actor is the best in the world? Is there any authoratative sounding answer that is of any value?

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#132

Post by derialstrazus »

old-gregg wrote: post #66
pwython wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the few in the "tech world" that isn't so much pro-privacy. Google can read my email, Apple can track my movements, my Amazon Echo can even listen in when it wants. The end result is a huge benefit to me. How is any AI supposed to know what I want, if I try to be an anonymous user? I prefer targeted ads. I prefer submitting my information to "robots" in the hopes that my user experience is tailored to what…

You are making two assumptions that aren't necessarily true. First, you're assuming that you have control over what kind of information is being collected and shared, and you're assuming it's always good for you. Here's a fairly innocent scenario: if Amazon Echo can learn everything about you, they may discover that you're crazy about Paris and you have good income. Then they can sell this info to every travel websit…

I think we're arguing about semantics here. I can see a valid reason for giving away my information if I know it will be used responsibly. I would like to let Google have my information if it helps turns my phone into a better assistant. I would like to extend segments of this information (namely location) to Uber and Lyft so that I can get rides easier. I would NOT like Google to sell my information to third parties that I have not agreed to, and this extends to Uber and Lyft as well. I want to choose which services get to use my data, and I want there to be consequences if those services leak my data.

Now you may say that you can't trust corporations with this responsibility, but what if there WAS something we could do to enforce that responsibility? How much control I have over my information should be left up to me, and it would be great if an entity I trust could enforce that. As of this moment, we don't have that option. However, it doesn't mean that such a future is impossible. If we argue about it enough, maybe the technology and the courts can find a way to make it happen.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#133

Post by starchild3001 »

This article ticks me off. Apple announced some really good features on Monday (CoreML and a bunch of ML driven features). Having this kind of article after WWDC is unfair. As a consumer, I applaud Apple's approach. The so-called AI as pursued by Google & other tech companies isn't AI at all. True AI won't need as much data. You do need data for Machine Learning (i.e. pattern matching). That's what other tech firms are pursuing. Apple being a hardware, systems and frameworks company is doing the right thing respecting my privacy. They leave data mining and personalization to 3rd party apps. If and when true AI happens, there's a good chance Apple will be leading that. (Why? True AI won't happen overnight, and true AI won't require access to a billion customer's emails or browsing history).

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#135

Post by naravara »

macinjosh wrote: post #83
jswny wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously doubt that there is a significant number of customers that Apple attracts by being pro-privacy. On HN and similar environments, sure, plenty of people here value privacy, as do I. However, don't think for a second that the community on HN is in any way representative of Apple's customer base at all. Apple customers buy Apple products because they work well, look nice, are popular here in the US, etc., but…

For their younger demographic I would agree they don't care bout privacy yet. For ~30+ year olds I think it is a big pull. Especially those that have ever had their identity stolen (even though its not really relevant). The average person isn't going to understand how or why Apple's products are better at privacy but if they get the message out there I am certain a good chunk of consumers will see it as a plus.

>For their younger demographic I would agree they don't care bout privacy yet.

Maybe it depends on who you're dealing with, but in my experience teenagers these days are a lot savvier about these things than the typical people in my (30+) cohort are. (They kind of have to be, no? They actually have parents and teachers snooping on them in their real lives so it's a more concrete concern for them.)

This is one of the reasons kids gravitate to Snapchat more than Facebook or Instagram after all: posts on there expire. They have a 'right to be forgotten' by default that they don't get with the other services. So I'd say they still care about keeping personal information personal, it's just motivated by different concerns than it is for the 30+ demographic since they don't have as much sensitive health and financial information floating out there.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#136

Post by ramses0 »

robteix wrote: post #46
wklauss wrote: post #8

> Six years later, the technology giant is struggling to find its voice in AI. I know that this is the most common approach to the situation but the article -as many other articles that have argued this before- provides no proof other than analysts speaking in broad strokes. I use Siri, Alexa and Assistant several times a week if not everyday and I'd hesitate a lot before saying that Siri is behind. Alexa is more res…

I don't know if that's your case or not, but I feel like English-speakers living in English-speaking countries dealing with only other English-speakers may never experience the misery of using Siri in other languages. If I set it to, say, Portuguese or French, its capabilities are greatly diminished. Even simple tasks as "play a song by Pearl Jam" are impossible because Siri will try to find some Portuguese phrase th…

This is "The Texas Problem". If I set the phone to english I can't say "give me directions to 'Taqueria Numero Uno'" and if I set it to spanish I can't say "donde esta el 'Wal-Mart' mas cercano" ... at least that was the case 2-3 years ago. Just this 5 de Mayo it got tripped up with "walk a moly" instead of "guacamole"

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#137

Post by b1daly »

old-gregg wrote: post #66
pwython wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the few in the "tech world" that isn't so much pro-privacy. Google can read my email, Apple can track my movements, my Amazon Echo can even listen in when it wants. The end result is a huge benefit to me. How is any AI supposed to know what I want, if I try to be an anonymous user? I prefer targeted ads. I prefer submitting my information to "robots" in the hopes that my user experience is tailored to what…

You are making two assumptions that aren't necessarily true. First, you're assuming that you have control over what kind of information is being collected and shared, and you're assuming it's always good for you. Here's a fairly innocent scenario: if Amazon Echo can learn everything about you, they may discover that you're crazy about Paris and you have good income. Then they can sell this info to every travel websit…

You make a good point about the pricing asymmetry.

But the point remains that most people are voluntarily, enthusiastically, giving up personal data in exchange for features that they find valuable.

It's hard to see that as a privacy issue.

Being part of the world involves being known. In the proverbial "olde days," when people lived in much smaller communities, everyone knew everyone's business.

Government spying on its own citizens is more problematic. But again, being a citizen, by definition, means aspects of an individual's life are known, and are public data.

This notion of "privacy" is a special, legal, construct. It's meaning in everyday language is provisional.

What is more problematic, IMO, is the excessive use of classification by the Federal Government. This practice is vulnerable to abuse, as it enables legally enforced secrecy to cover up misconduct.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#138

Post by derialstrazus »

CaptSpify wrote: post #92
abritinthebay wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you don't. You have only control over the former. History has shown us time and time again you don't have control over the latter.

How do you have control over the former? Data is being gleamed about you even if you aren't using their products, and it's being used by companies you haven't authorized all the time.

Our legal structure needs to catch up and punish companies who use data that we did not authorize. Data should be seen as personal property.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#139

Post by Asdfbla »

macinjosh wrote: post #3

I am an Apple fanboy but I am also a privacy fanboy. As AI, IoT, and consumer tracking continue to invade our daily lives I think Apple will continue to do quite well if they maintain there pro-privacy heading. Privacy is a feature, it's something people want, and unfortunately its becoming a luxury. That is something that attracts Apple's customers.

While I don't really believe Apple will not also eventually succumb to the idea of making more money by incorporating tracking and selling out users, I really liked their initiatives for privacy-preserving data collection like the differential privacy approach they promised last year.

I hope they publish more in that direction.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#140

Post by matt_wulfeck »

starchild3001 wrote: post #133

This article ticks me off. Apple announced some really good features on Monday (CoreML and a bunch of ML driven features). Having this kind of article after WWDC is unfair. As a consumer, I applaud Apple's approach. The so-called AI as pursued by Google & other tech companies isn't AI at all. True AI won't need as much data. You do need data for Machine Learning (i.e. pattern matching). That's what other tech firms a…

I wouldn't worry too much. People keep buying iPhones because they love them, and developers use their platform because of the money and reach. The article is negative, but the two targets for these changes (developers, users) will benefit largely in the time to come.
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