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“Let her speak please”

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Re: “Let her speak please”

#561

Post by vm »

jasonshen wrote: post #11

Edit: I watched the video. The moderator goes on and on and the "let her speak please" sounds very polite. This is a painfully frustrating reminder that women get talked over by men. It's one thing to have one panelist talk over another, but to have the moderator, who is explicitly in charge of facilitating a panel discussion, be the one to drown out a panelist is just unacceptable. Yes, "not all men" do this, but th…

This is a real problem in the business and tech communities. I have seen few people "at the top" acknowledge it.

Leaders, make an effort to listen and clear the air for others to speak up. Don't beat them up if they don't articulate brilliantly right away -- it takes practice. You'll be surprised at the rate of improvement.

For individuals, I use this trick when people cut me off AND it's unjustified: saying "hang on, let me finish" and then driving my point aggressively. It has mostly worked though I am male.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#562

Post by Jabanga »

gpawl wrote: post #526
trendia wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd have to agree though that it's a remarkable coincidence that the moderator began to ramble when he started talking about a topic that he was particularly excited about and which he was not particularly knowledgeable about.

Why is it more important to you to prove it's "not sexism" than to be concerned that moderator did his job poorly regardless of the reason?

Because attributing everything to sexism has harmful societal effects.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#563

Post by pokemongoaway »

RHSeeger wrote: post #62
seanhandley wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want to tell feminists what sexism is? My advice: don't. Listen.

People looking for bias can be just as wrong as people ignoring it. Examples of people claiming x-ism where it doesn't exist abound. Yes, sexism/racism/classism/etc all exist and are all problems, but that doesn't mean every unfortunate circumstance is an instance of it. When you believe someone is wrong, it's (generally) not a bad thing to try to explain why you believe they're wrong. You may not convince them, but…

Why is it not sexism? OK, I'll bite... Because he has a wife who he's fucked and kids he's created. Or no, you're right, he hates ALL women! If this were the court of law, then the charge would not hold.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#564

Post by pron »

overgard wrote: post #539
pron wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sexism is not misogyny. It is not about intent, and certainly not about hurt feelings. It is an objective quality of a reality where women are given less power. A sexist situation either is or isn't. And as power is a social construct -- e.g. people who are treated with respect by others with a high social status, have their own status elevated and vice-versa -- the reality of sexism is determined by the effect on th…

Honestly this is a horrible philosophy -- the notion that anything can be sexist if someone chooses to be offended. You talk about an imbalance of power, but isn't the ability to recontextualize any bad behavior as sexist just because of the participants involved a huge source of power in of itself?

> Honestly this is a horrible philosophy -- the notion that anything can be sexist if someone chooses to be offended.

But it's the exact opposite. Being offended has nothing to do with sexism. Sexism is an objective situation of an unequal distribution of power. Sexism would exist even if everyone in the world thought it was great, and no one was ever offended in the slightest.

> but isn't the ability to recontextualize any bad behavior as sexist just because of the participants involved a huge source of power in of itself?

I don't know what "bad" behavior is. I do know what sexist behavior is: behavior the creates or perpetuates an unequal distribution of power. There is no "recontextualization" involved; sexism would exist or not regardless of how it's contextualized; like gravity. The only ethical question is whether you believe that this imbalance of power needs to be rectified.

But do people who fight sexism have power? Sure, they have some, but clearly, the imbalance of power between men and women is so large, that there is still no question about which side has more power.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#565

Post by camelite »

azernik wrote: post #387
oneoff_147 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal experience, especially through family and to a lesser extent through other acquaintances, is of women dominating conversations and talking over men. I (a man) can't tell you how many times I've had a woman ask me a question and then talk over my answer, or repeatedly interrupt me when I try to participate in a conversation. And I see the same thing happening to other men I know. The men just kind of give…

I would ask that you question your own perception: http://pubman.mpdl.mpg.de/pubman/item/escidoc:68785:7/compon...

The relevance of that study is a massive stretch.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#566

Post by elif »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #473
jasonshen wrote: post #11

Edit: I watched the video. The moderator goes on and on and the "let her speak please" sounds very polite. This is a painfully frustrating reminder that women get talked over by men. It's one thing to have one panelist talk over another, but to have the moderator, who is explicitly in charge of facilitating a panel discussion, be the one to drown out a panelist is just unacceptable. Yes, "not all men" do this, but th…

People get talked over by people. I see this all the time and it's generally sexless. As a consultant I've helped at least 100 teams have crucial conversations across tens of businesses. I don't get the constant refrain that this is a male vs. female thing.

My suspicion is that it is based largely upon context.

I would postulate that academia and journalism are still pretty sexist compared to the 'tens of businesses' you observed.

Potentially in support of your perspective: I see the overspeaking roles inverted in the context of reality TV shows, though that could potentially be seen as a counter-action to normal social roles which develops as structure of society is removed... which would imply the sexist paradigm is the prevalent one.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#568

Post by cryptonector »

cryptonector wrote: post #383
exodust wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But he conducted himself fine with her at the 27:10 point when he asks her to explain something and does not interrupt. https://youtu.be/Er7qPv8jsZo?t=27m9s So I think you're looking for grounds for sexism accusation which aren't really there. Further more, there's nothing stopping her from stepping in and giving her views at any point, as other members of the panel were doing from time to time. If she's too shy to j…

I went to a random time and landed at around 1h in, and she speaks for minutes uninterrupted.

Maybe that was after the "let her speak"?

Re: “Let her speak please”

#569

Post by Jabanga »

jlebar wrote: post #443
birracerveza wrote: post #46

The exaggeration of this post is infuriating. I saw the video, and while I do agree that Jim Holt was especially rude in asking questions and then start talking as soon as she started answering, that is all it is. Rudeness. Not sexism. He did it with the men too.

CSB time: A while ago, I had lunch with a group of friends from university and a (male) professor we'd all had. I thought it was pleasant, but soon after we were done with lunch, I got a text from a female friend of mine who was also there: "Prof. So-and-so is a sexist bastard, I am so mad." I was taken aback, because I'd been sitting right next to both of them, and...what had happened that I'd noticed nothing? Turns…

It's possible that a person's perception of reality is warped by their own fears and biases. They may think X is happening to them more than to other people because they have Y distinguishing feature, but in reality, they just notice when X happens to them, because they're hyper conscious of it, or it's actually happening to them because they exhibit Z behavior.

I think I've probably done this myself many times, and I imagine others do it a lot too.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#570

Post by abelhabel »

odonnellryan wrote: post #548
abelhabel wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my experience as well. I am from Scandinavia and now living in Canada and I have only met a handful of individuals who do not interrupt others while speaking. Unlike you I tell them to shut up, which is the way it is where I come from but doesn't translate well. Furthermore, I have never seen any american interviewer not interrupting their subjects. This is my bias, so I never see sexism nor racism in this co…

Why is it weird to have conversations this way? I would find it very odd to save a string of questions until the end. It's much more fun to engage in the conversation actively. I'm not saying control the conversation. Good conversationalists listen more than they speak. But having fun in a conversation is engaging in it. Not replying paragraph after paragraph, in my opinion.

For me it is disrespectful to interrupt someone speaking, so that is why I find it "weird". But it is most probably a matter of preference. I don't think everyone should have discussions on my terms.

In the context of interviewerinterviewee, though, I think it is generally more interesting to listen to the interviewee than the interviewer. It seems to me that the whole premise of the interviewerinterviewee is for the interviewer to get the interviewee to talk.

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