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“Let her speak please”

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Re: “Let her speak please”

#381

Post by unicornporn »

Houshalter wrote: post #315

I have a theory that women are less likely to be, I guess the word would be "assertive", than men. That is a stereotype, but sometimes there's truth in stereotypes. I mean I recall studies that women are less likely to ask for raises or are worse at haggling. So if a person is speaking over you and rambling on, perhaps a man is more likely to speak up or butt in at the first opportunity. The quote in the top comment…

> I have a theory that women are less likely to be, I guess the word would be "assertive", than men.

That's a descriptive, not necessarily a normative, statement. What's more interesting to me is why women and men act differently. Do you believe the differences could be the result of child rearing, social climate and norms etc?

Re: “Let her speak please”

#382

Post by logfromblammo »

jasonshen wrote: post #11

Edit: I watched the video. The moderator goes on and on and the "let her speak please" sounds very polite. This is a painfully frustrating reminder that women get talked over by men. It's one thing to have one panelist talk over another, but to have the moderator, who is explicitly in charge of facilitating a panel discussion, be the one to drown out a panelist is just unacceptable. Yes, "not all men" do this, but th…

I get talked over all the time. I usually chalk it up to being an American living in America, but with a more Scandinavian/Minnesotan conversational style.

That is, I will pause while speaking, spooling my next thought out to the phonological loop, to review and filter it, before streaming it out through the voice apparatus, but then some jackass will use that break to assume conversational priority when I haven't yielded it yet. So when I resume speaking, they are already talking.

It is practically impossible for me to engage in a conversation with such a person constantly ruining it for me, so I usually just keep my thoughts to myself and regret even showing up for the party.

Even my spouse does this in a 1-on-1 conversation. And then I am the one accused of interrupting, as though it is acceptable to jump in between two sentences of a paragraph. It's like I need that stupid conch shell from Lord of the Flies in order to say everything that I want to say. And I get so irritated when people spew out a stream of content-free babble, for the sole purpose of maintaining priority, to the point where I forget what I have been wanting to say for the last 5 minutes.

It might be a sexist thing, but I think it's more likely that the people with the least latency between brain and larynx--and therefore the fewest speech filters--are the ones that never learned that conversational priority isn't just about refraining from talking while sound is still coming out of someone else's mouth. And, of course, there are also the people who simply decide they are the most important person in a conversation and act like they're the lead actor giving a monologue, and everyone else is the chorus.

So please, have a care as to whether a silence in the conversation is a pause or a yield. You may be interrupting someone giving due consideration to what they will say next.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#383

Post by cryptonector »

exodust wrote: post #38
coffeedoughnuts wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, what makes this closer to sexism than bad manners is the fact that the same person seems to have conducted himself with good manners for the rest of the event when talking with the male members of the panel.

But he conducted himself fine with her at the 27:10 point when he asks her to explain something and does not interrupt. https://youtu.be/Er7qPv8jsZo?t=27m9s So I think you're looking for grounds for sexism accusation which aren't really there. Further more, there's nothing stopping her from stepping in and giving her views at any point, as other members of the panel were doing from time to time. If she's too shy to j…

I went to a random time and landed at around 1h in, and she speaks for minutes uninterrupted.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#384

Post by undershirt »

discombobulate wrote: post #159

I received a delivery from a black gentleman today. Whilst reaching out for the package I was concerned he may think I'm racist if I wasn't excessively nice to him. I think I may be uncomfortable around minorities for fear of being labelled a racist. I have a similar worry around women. I think becoming racist would solve my concerns -- at least in my own mind. However, it doesn't make any sense to do that: individua…

What you're experiencing is the fact that short-circuiting, unconscious emotions can only be hidden—not fixed—by the pressure of social stigma.

The solution touches on a concept I've struggled to describe to others—that there is a divide between truths that we consciously know (fed by culture) and beliefs we unconsciously feel (fed by emotion). Empathy (the actual experience of a person's problems not the "imagine yourself in their shoes" kind) is the only thing that fully informs our unconscious emotions. See the famous Jane Elliott "Blue eyes–Brown eyes" exercise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHxFuO2Nk-0

What I like about our current hyper-aware culture is that I think it will eventually lead to an acknowledgement of the nature of this divide, and we will soon be acknowledging many other -isms that fall into this category for which there are many. I hope the overwhelming nature of it will not cause us to throw our hands up and resign to it all, but rather cause us to consciously decide when it is appropriate to turn off empathy (creating consciously accepted -isms), rather than letting it be determined to the whims of a culture out of ignorance (hidden unconscious -isms). I hope to see future cultures unfold in this sort of way.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#385

Post by azernik »

walterstucco wrote: post #118
watwut wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, in this instance, if you watch the video, males were treated differently. Yes, hypothetically, if women acted the same (or interrupted only males), she would be as bad as he was. Yes, hypothetically, if he treated males and females the same, he would be just equal opportunity asshole. Nevertheless, in this specific case, the only women was treated differently.

> in this instance, if you watch the video, males were treated differently. and in other instances women were treated differently. so what? what's the point? do you wanna say that this instance represent the way women are generally treated when they talk?

Studies generally say "yes" - this is the way women are generally treated when they talk.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#386

Post by aggie »

weberc2 wrote: post #353
aggie wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To say "every time some social justice event gains public attention, it turns out to not be sexism/racist/etc. at all" seems like a wild overgeneralization. You would probably be more accurate in saying that while "sexism/racism/etc" are often over-attributed as a cause, they are in fact pervasive, but to varying degrees of influence. The first mistake is to assume there's a singular cause of any behavior.

He was plainly speaking figuratively...

I'd be charitable to their claim if they left it at 'every time', but to say the incidents are not due to sexism 'at all' is not a good argument, even interpreted figuratively.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#387

Post by azernik »

oneoff_147 wrote: post #96
lawik wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you believe that it is as common? Do you believe that the person you are replying to doesn't believe that it ever happens? Does excluding a full disclaimer invalidate his thoughts about trying not to talk over women or dominating conversations? I don't believe it is always necessary to counter-exemplify what you experience as a general trend.

My personal experience, especially through family and to a lesser extent through other acquaintances, is of women dominating conversations and talking over men. I (a man) can't tell you how many times I've had a woman ask me a question and then talk over my answer, or repeatedly interrupt me when I try to participate in a conversation. And I see the same thing happening to other men I know. The men just kind of give…

I would ask that you question your own perception: http://pubman.mpdl.mpg.de/pubman/item/escidoc:68785:7/compon...

Re: “Let her speak please”

#388

Post by sopooneo »

tankenmate wrote: post #348
randomguy23 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you wear sexism-colored glasses, don't be surprised if everything looks like sexism. That, I think, is what she's getting at. If you're always looking for a slight, always looking for a snide remark, you'll find it. Perception shapes reality.

Tathagata Buddha, the Father Buddha, said, "With our thoughts, we make the world."

And Ronald Regan, the Great Gipper, once thought "I'm shot", and it was so. But it was just as true for JFK, who made no such observation.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#389

Post by masondixon »

Everyone reading this please, please, please watch the video.

It is ridiculously not what it seems. I read the comments here, and the FB post and after watching it in full context you get such a different perspective.

And it is just as the lady on the panelist has said in her comment.

The moderator is trying to simplify things for the audience.

After introducing her he tries to create an analogy as to how to think about it and says:

"I'm giving a very garbled caricature of it, you're the expect, why don't you tell us."

Why would he use self-deprecating language if he was being sexist? He is openly saying that she could explain it better.

He talks over her a few times, but he is in know way talking down to her, rather just trying to place everything in his overarching analogy which is the role of the moderator. To maintain a common thread running through the discussion.

Then he reframes it again, and concedes: "I'm putting this in a provacative way. Please explain it to us properly."

Again, he is even acknowledging when he feels he is being provocative.

After the interruption:

"That always happens to me...do I talk too much?"

Which seems like he knows that he gets overly excited sometimes and talks to much.

Seriously people!

Re: “Let her speak please”

#390

Post by Tech1 »

I was at this event. Marilee was seated directly in front of my girlfriend and I (the stage / panel and the back of Marilee's head pictured: https://imgur.com/a/GEapw). The interruptions were real. I was one of the men in Marilee's facebook post making comments about the sexism. Immediately following Marilee's comment, the entire place erupted with applause. On the way out, several people asked my GF if she was the one who made the comment, with one person saying "That was the most important thing to happen here today".
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