It seems like the other perspective has been lost here. The host has now been publicly branded as a sexist on "evidence" that at best is ambiguous. To the people upvoting this: Shouldn't claims like this that are extremely damaging to a persons reputation require more evidence?
“Let her speak please”
521–530 of 723 posts
Re: “Let her speak please”
#522Edit: I watched the video. The moderator goes on and on and the "let her speak please" sounds very polite. This is a painfully frustrating reminder that women get talked over by men. It's one thing to have one panelist talk over another, but to have the moderator, who is explicitly in charge of facilitating a panel discussion, be the one to drown out a panelist is just unacceptable. Yes, "not all men" do this, but th…
People get talked over by people. I see this all the time and it's generally sexless. As a consultant I've helped at least 100 teams have crucial conversations across tens of businesses. I don't get the constant refrain that this is a male vs. female thing.
Your anecdote of your fuzzy memory is not research.
When measurements are taken, there is a clear pattern:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/womensmedia/2017/01/03/gal-inte...
https://hbr.org/2017/04/female-supreme-court-justices-are-in...
http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2015/03/19/google...
Re: “Let her speak please”
#523Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe it happened to the least assertive person in the panel?
Yeah, this gets into a problem where people use the word "sexism" in a couple different ways, that don't mean the same thing. Mostly conscious vs unconscious, I think? Almost no one goes home and writes, "Dear Diary, today I insulted some women, because I hate women. Let's keep doing that." So of course, if you accuse someone of being that kind of conscious sexist, it's a huge insult. You're calling them a sad hate m…
> Saying "that wasn't sexist; so-and-so is actually less assertive" kind of assumes that we're talking about conscious sexism.
The idea that less assertive implies female is sexist.
The person you're responding to could have simply meant the other participants refused to let the moderator walk over them like that, which has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with behavior.
Re: “Let her speak please”
#524Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nonsense. By your statement, the reason it disproportionately impacts women is not because of some rudimentary, fundamental reason but rather because they fail to react the same way the men did and speak up. That lies 100% on the women. In fact what YOU wrote is actually sexist, since it suggests that the corrective action would be to act differently toward her, but not the men. Perhaps you might merely argue that he…
> By your statement, the reason it disproportionately impacts women is not because of some rudimentary, fundamental reason but rather because they fail to react the same way the men did and speak up. That lies 100% on the women. No, the effects of deliberate, targeted differences in socialization by gender aren't the fault of the people experiencing adverse impacts because of the intersection of those with social str…
Nice victim-blaming, bro. Just because some people push back against misbehavior doesn't mean the misbehavior is right to continue wherever it's not checked.
Re: “Let her speak please”
#525Earlier quoted context omitted.
"pulled a quick definition from the web" is virtually never a useful way to engage something like this. It's like quoting a statute from the law books and ignoring a long history of case law that defines how that law actually works in practice.
That's a fair enough point. I'll strengthen my position this way instead. Let's assume the definition is garbage and ignore it. Are stereotyping examples things that fall into the category of sexism? I think they absolutely are. And I think most people would agree. "Women aren't as good as men at [whatever]" - sexist? Yep "Women often have difficulty interrupting in the way that the men here did" - sexist? Sure sound…
"Men aren't as good as women at multitasking" - sexist?
Re: “Let her speak please”
#526Earlier quoted context omitted.
You'd have to agree though that it's a remarkable coincidence that this only happened to the only female scientist who was part of the panel.
You'd have to agree though that it's a remarkable coincidence that the moderator began to ramble when he started talking about a topic that he was particularly excited about and which he was not particularly knowledgeable about.
Why is it more important to you to prove it's "not sexism" than to be concerned that moderator did his job poorly regardless of the reason?
Re: “Let her speak please”
#527Earlier quoted context omitted.
I get talked over all the time. I usually chalk it up to being an American living in America, but with a more Scandinavian/Minnesotan conversational style. That is, I will pause while speaking, spooling my next thought out to the phonological loop, to review and filter it, before streaming it out through the voice apparatus, but then some jackass will use that break to assume conversational priority when I haven't yi…
I realize this sounds silly, but maybe having a conch, or similar talisman of "I'm not done yet, please listen" might be handy. I find myself interrupting my children a lot more than I like (and while it often feels like it's because they're interrupting me as well, I'm certain that's usually not true). Having a stuffed animal or similar "conch" talisman might help us actually listen, because each of us could point o…
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Re: “Let her speak please”
#528Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In many cases there may be neither. The story tells how the audience applauded to the "let her speak" comment, and how afterwards a large number of people came to thank her for the comment. So in this case it was a large number of people who perceived there being sexism.
Which isn't evidence of much; millions of people assumed Darren Wilson was a racist murderer even after the facts were known. There's a very strong temptation for some people to perceive injustice everywhere.
Come off it. You can't just disregard all the informed opinions of all the witness who disagree with your uninformed judgment
Re: “Let her speak please”
#529Earlier quoted context omitted.
That precludes the breed of jerks who will talk over anybody that will tolerate it. What makes you think there aren't women who also like to claim the center of attention, regardless of other men OR women around them? I don't understand this need to idolize one sex over the other, when the issue is that some people (like this moderator) are just more tone deaf or inconsiderate than others. Equality between sexes impl…
> That precludes the breed of jerks who will talk over anybody that will tolerate it So are you claiming that those sort of jerks are not going to be extra nasty to women that will tolerate it? That they are going to be equally nasty to people of both sexes? If that's what you're claiming, I'll humbly disagree but won't engage any further. > What makes you think there aren't women who also like to claim the center of…
I think his point was that this is not an example of sexism because such people will talk over any gender. Now perhaps these types of people will talk over women more, but in this case it seems this guy is just a jerk talking over either gender.
Re: “Let her speak please”
#530Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is exactly what a heckling is: > interrupt (a public speaker) with derisive or aggressive comments or abuse. When a member yells out something from the audience to someone on stage: That's a heckle. They forced a break in the 4th wall. (yes, the audience member was right, but so was the moderator in that small instance)
What was said ("let her speak, please") doesn't fit any of those categories. It was an interruption, but not derisive, aggressive, or abusive.
It was aggressive. The statement was a command (followed by a desperate request) deriding the behavior and speech of the moderator.
Why do you feel that calling the person who interjected a "heckler" is a bad thing?