Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels • Hacker News Board

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#471

Post by Bartweiss » Wed, Jun 07, 2017, 4:21 PM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #306

patejam wrote: post #130

By far the best article I've seen to supplement this: https://www.outsideonline.com/2190306/why-alex-honnolds-free... As a climber, there are very few people that I trust to have a more useful opinion on all this than Tommy Caldwell, a close friend and long time climbing partner of Honnold. It's so out there for most people that most jump to conclusions without proper knowledge of the subject. Caldwell is in an inter…

It’s all too easy for headlines about climbing to lean on clichés about the climbers themselves—that these people are daredevils, thrill seekers, adrenaline junkies. But to most climbers, nothing is quicker to trigger the gag reflex. Climbing is an intimate relationship with our world’s most dramatic landscapes, not a self-boasting fight against them. I don’t claim to understand the inner workings of Alex’s mind, but…

One fact that might help - setting safety gear generally consumes a significant portion of a climber's time and effort. It doesn't show in top-roped gym climbing, but going up El Cap means putting a great deal of work into hauling and placing safety gear.

Free soloing versus geared climbing is almost comparable to free diving versus scuba. It's less safe, but removes so much overhead that it's a qualitatively different experience.

Honnold's free solos in Yosemite are frequently world speed records - often by a factor of 2 or more. He's climbing with a directness and lack of complication that's really hard to attain any other way.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#472

Post by Bartweiss » Wed, Jun 07, 2017, 4:22 PM UTC

samstave wrote: post #462

theparanoid wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I free solo'ed small stuff, mostly 5.6/5.7. It's a rush, the desire will always be there.

What's the rating of free solo El Capitan?

5.13a, as Honnold did it. There's a route without the dihedral that drops it down to 5.12d, but the rock isn't considered trustworthy anymore.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#473

Post by Bartweiss » Wed, Jun 07, 2017, 4:26 PM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #306

patejam wrote: post #130

By far the best article I've seen to supplement this: https://www.outsideonline.com/2190306/why-alex-honnolds-free... As a climber, there are very few people that I trust to have a more useful opinion on all this than Tommy Caldwell, a close friend and long time climbing partner of Honnold. It's so out there for most people that most jump to conclusions without proper knowledge of the subject. Caldwell is in an inter…

It’s all too easy for headlines about climbing to lean on clichés about the climbers themselves—that these people are daredevils, thrill seekers, adrenaline junkies. But to most climbers, nothing is quicker to trigger the gag reflex. Climbing is an intimate relationship with our world’s most dramatic landscapes, not a self-boasting fight against them. I don’t claim to understand the inner workings of Alex’s mind, but…

Another thought - this is specifically about Honnold.

Caldwell isn't just making a pretty-sounding claim, he's drawing a distinction between Honnold and other free soloists who were much more attuned to death, who seemed to be free soloing precisely for the adrenaline rush of survival. (Dean Potter is the classic example.)

So I think this is a claim that Honnold is soloing for the purity and experience of the thing, specifically as compared to some other soloists who are more focused on adrenaline and risk.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#474

Post by adbachman » Wed, Jun 07, 2017, 4:33 PM UTC

matt-attack wrote: post #465

Something I've always wondered about stuff like this: How can someone get so good at a craft that seemingly allows for zero mistakes? How do you practice and develop your skills when there's no margin for error? (Note: I'm assuming he'd have died if he ever made a mistake on this climb)

There are lots of small mistakes you can make while climbing that don't result in a fall. Poor route selection, bad hand placement, sketchy foot holds, etc. The sport is choices leading to choices. Small bad choices can be corrected, for the most part.

For example, in the National Geographic[1] story it mentions that he attempted the climb in November but "but backed off after less than an hour of climbing". I assume he hit some threshold of small mistakes, bad conditions, and negative vibes that added up to, "not today." But he got down and lived to climb another day.

The interview with Tommy Caldwell linked elsewhere in the comments mentions that he even fell once while practicing for this climb, "he had taken a fall on a practice lap of the Freerider and badly sprained his ankle."

So probably less that he makes NO mistakes, and more that none of his mistakes have meant a deadly fall yet.

[1]: http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/features/athlete...

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#475

Post by irrational » Wed, Jun 07, 2017, 4:39 PM UTC

raygelogic wrote: post #446

irrational wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the pictures El Capitan seems really tall and flat/sheer. Are there other cliffs in the world that are even taller or more sheer? I'm just wondering since I've seen comments from people saying something to the affect that they can't imagine what could top this. There are thousands of mountains around the world. Surely El Capitan isn't the Mt Everest of climbing.

there are more sheer cliffs, there are taller mountains, and there are harder routes, for sure. but what makes a cliff, a mountain, or a specific route inspiring is harder to define than its physical countours. there's a mountain in Argentina called Cerro Torre that is seen my many alpinists as the holy grail of mountaineering. it's about 11,000 feet tall, and has a neighbor to the north called Fitz Roy that is even…

In your opinion, what cliff in the world would be most impressive if someone free soloed it? That is, there is no way someone could top free soloing X since there simply isn't any other cliff/route on the face of the earth that could compare.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#476

Post by hluska » Wed, Jun 07, 2017, 4:40 PM UTC

samstave wrote: post #461

idlewords wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like having sex without falling three thousand feet to your death.

It would have also been amazing if he free-claimed up with a chute on his back and as he reached the peak, based off it back to the bottom!

Had Dean Potter lived a little longer, I suspect that he would have tried that.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Potter

https://www.outsideonline.com/1981591/dean-potter-killed-bas...

Edit -- Added a second, better link.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#477

Post by yayitswei » Wed, Jun 07, 2017, 4:46 PM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #306

patejam wrote: post #130

By far the best article I've seen to supplement this: https://www.outsideonline.com/2190306/why-alex-honnolds-free... As a climber, there are very few people that I trust to have a more useful opinion on all this than Tommy Caldwell, a close friend and long time climbing partner of Honnold. It's so out there for most people that most jump to conclusions without proper knowledge of the subject. Caldwell is in an inter…

It’s all too easy for headlines about climbing to lean on clichés about the climbers themselves—that these people are daredevils, thrill seekers, adrenaline junkies. But to most climbers, nothing is quicker to trigger the gag reflex. Climbing is an intimate relationship with our world’s most dramatic landscapes, not a self-boasting fight against them. I don’t claim to understand the inner workings of Alex’s mind, but…

By that logic, would you call doing a startup cheating poverty?

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#478

Post by ghshephard » Wed, Jun 07, 2017, 4:55 PM UTC

arcticfox wrote: post #273

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Just a lot less probable.

Alex only does dangerous free solos on rare occasions. He's certainly vastly more likely to die on one than the average person on the average day, but the fact that he only does it rarely is how he's still alive at all. Nobody really knows exactly what type of risk he's taking, but my rough guess is that he's probably on the order of ~10x an average mortality rate (which is 1.5% / yr among males his age). Whether tha…

Your average mortality rate is off by 10x. Mortality rate for a 31 year old in the United States is 104/100,000 or 0.104%/year.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/mortfinal2007_worktable23r...

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#479

Post by zzalpha » Wed, Jun 07, 2017, 5:05 PM UTC

bigato wrote: post #463

hluska wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a couple of things that might help you a bit: 1. Alex Honnold's brain is atypical. His amygdala simply does not respond to stimuli the way that it does in most people. To learn more, read this (excellent) article: http://nautil.us/issue/39/sport/the-strange-brain-of-the-wor... 2. While I am (at best) a mediocre climber, the section you quoted rings true to me, particularly this section - "Climbing is an intima…

What is the personality test that this article about Alex mentions? The one that generated that bar graph. I'd like to take it myself.

Something like this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/mind/surveys/sensatio...

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#480

Post by pavement » Wed, Jun 07, 2017, 5:05 PM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #306

patejam wrote: post #130

By far the best article I've seen to supplement this: https://www.outsideonline.com/2190306/why-alex-honnolds-free... As a climber, there are very few people that I trust to have a more useful opinion on all this than Tommy Caldwell, a close friend and long time climbing partner of Honnold. It's so out there for most people that most jump to conclusions without proper knowledge of the subject. Caldwell is in an inter…

It’s all too easy for headlines about climbing to lean on clichés about the climbers themselves—that these people are daredevils, thrill seekers, adrenaline junkies. But to most climbers, nothing is quicker to trigger the gag reflex. Climbing is an intimate relationship with our world’s most dramatic landscapes, not a self-boasting fight against them. I don’t claim to understand the inner workings of Alex’s mind, but…

It's about perspective. One definition or opinion does not necessarily invalidate the other. Each is an expression of a point of view.

You say safety equipment. Others might say encumbrance, or unnatural performance enhancer, or laziness cheat. An apparatus that enables a lessening of difficulty, which eases the challenge.

When the goal is to engage a challenge, anything that renders the effort less challenging is a dilution of the very challenge as a whole.

Of course one must use safety equipment to examine the possibility of a raw attempt. But one builds on the experience, removing the unnecessary, wherever possible.

Of course it's easier to climb with a helmet and ropes, because those are the things that provide for obvious leverage to control the outcome. But who ever climbed a mountain because they wanted to do an easy thing?

The harder the task is, the better, in this context. The satisfaction of accomplishment is the goal, rather than the stress or all of the physiological byproducts or recognition that come as part of the package when completing the task.

Trying to do something, based on an intuition that an outcome is possible, when others lack the same intuition is the goal here.

This is not the same as fame. Fame is a derivative of the behavior of others, as outsiders to the activity.

To trust in one's intuition, and find that it is correct, is a fundamental aspect of human existence.

To divorce oneself of maximizing challenge, is to lie in bed all day as a shut in, and have your food delivered to you, in the most exaggerated sense of the comparison.