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Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

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Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#321

Post by jjaredsimpson »

kbenson wrote: post #306
patejam wrote: post #130

By far the best article I've seen to supplement this: https://www.outsideonline.com/2190306/why-alex-honnolds-free... As a climber, there are very few people that I trust to have a more useful opinion on all this than Tommy Caldwell, a close friend and long time climbing partner of Honnold. It's so out there for most people that most jump to conclusions without proper knowledge of the subject. Caldwell is in an inter…

It’s all too easy for headlines about climbing to lean on clichés about the climbers themselves—that these people are daredevils, thrill seekers, adrenaline junkies. But to most climbers, nothing is quicker to trigger the gag reflex. Climbing is an intimate relationship with our world’s most dramatic landscapes, not a self-boasting fight against them. I don’t claim to understand the inner workings of Alex’s mind, but…

You have to embrace the ambiguity in natural languages. Life and death can be simply considered opposites. In this mode of thinking any risky behavior is trading in death at the peril of life.

However you can also imagine a justification along these lines: There are certain things we humans can do which give us access to unique highly desirable mental states. Some of these are familiar things like falling in love or having children. These are risks but usually perceived as having obvious upsides. There are also other behaviors like drug use or underground fight clubs which also give access to unique mental states but are usually perceived as too risky to encourage. It's easy to put judge free soloing climbing as something like drug use or bareknuckle boxing. But try to imagine that when done correctly and carefully that it could be something much like having a child or working on a math proof for years.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#322

Post by BHSPitMonkey »

jojoo wrote: post #280
eigenvector wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Someone climbs to your location from the ground, or descends from the top of the route, hauling a sufficient amount of gear for you to rappel or be lowered to the ground. Obviously impractical on massive routes like El Cap. 2. A rescuer is slung onto the route near the incapacitated climber's location using a helicopter long-line. They prepare the climber for extraction and then they are both slung off by the heli…

in this case he could just wait on a ledge until other climbers went by and ascended with them.

You can't just insert yourself into someone else's big wall party if they weren't planning on it; those other climbers would be spending multiple days on the route and would almost certainly not have food, water, and portaledge space for you (not to mention how profoundly rude that would be...). If you were indeed at the mercy of needing strangers to rescue you, a passing party or a rescue party would need to change their plans and retreat with you, which would only really be a good call if your life were at risk otherwise.

The more realistic plan would be to have some friends ready and willing to come retrieve him if needed, and to potentially stash some gear/supplies at the larger belay ledges a few days prior.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#323

Post by mbostleman »

takk309 wrote: post #36
tuna-piano wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any idea of how many people have free climbed this route? I'm really curious to know if Honnold is a one-of-a-kind climber or there are similar skill level climbers who just aren't willing to risk it without ropes? Either way he's amazing, but I'm curious to know how amazing.

This route, called the Freerider, has been free climbed by a lot of people. It is arguably the easiest free climb on El Cap. That being said it is out of the range of most climbers. I will assume you are not familiar with climbing grades, here is an overview: http://www.coloradomountaineering.com/2012/01/guide-to-yosem... The Freerider is rated at 5.12d. This is a grade that most people will struggle to attain withou…

It's worth noting that a route's difficulty is based on the hardest section. So the rest of the route is generally less, and in some places a lot less.

This is not to diminish in anyway the difficulty of a 5.12d, but might be good background for those not familiar with climbing.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#324

Post by mbostleman »

rgzn wrote: post #35
tuna-piano wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any idea of how many people have free climbed this route? I'm really curious to know if Honnold is a one-of-a-kind climber or there are similar skill level climbers who just aren't willing to risk it without ropes? Either way he's amazing, but I'm curious to know how amazing.

Also, there are many climbers more skilled than Honnold at climbing hard routes. Honnold is not even in competition for climbing the hardest grades. However, there is no one close to him in his confidence and security off-rope on difficult grades.

Good point. He is also particularly good at carrying long, sustained routes in a single push.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#325

Post by protomyth »

kibwen wrote: post #228
prawn wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was filmed/shot by NatGeo, isn't that media on his tail in some sense? It's still pressure he would have to resist. Bailing on an attempt would inconvenience a support team.

It was shot on behalf of NatGeo, but I believe the small film crew was hand-selected from among people he already knew and trusted.

looking at the captions on the pictures[1], it looks like they even picked places where he really shouldn't have a distraction of a camera person and placed remotes[2].

1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14500166 http://elcapreport.com/content/elcap-report-6317-special-edi...

2) #14 from http://elcapreport.com/content/elcap-report-6317-special-edi... with the caption "14) He rested again for a short time before doing the infamous “Boulder Problem” which has turned away most of the suitors of the free ascent. This is the crux move of the entire route and it was mandatory that it be done well. He did it and I felt a great sense of relief that he passed it successfully. Notice the two cameras near him. Remotely controlled so no photographers would be hanging around him on this critical pitch."

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#327

Post by snowwrestler »

kbenson wrote: post #306
patejam wrote: post #130

By far the best article I've seen to supplement this: https://www.outsideonline.com/2190306/why-alex-honnolds-free... As a climber, there are very few people that I trust to have a more useful opinion on all this than Tommy Caldwell, a close friend and long time climbing partner of Honnold. It's so out there for most people that most jump to conclusions without proper knowledge of the subject. Caldwell is in an inter…

It’s all too easy for headlines about climbing to lean on clichés about the climbers themselves—that these people are daredevils, thrill seekers, adrenaline junkies. But to most climbers, nothing is quicker to trigger the gag reflex. Climbing is an intimate relationship with our world’s most dramatic landscapes, not a self-boasting fight against them. I don’t claim to understand the inner workings of Alex’s mind, but…

Everyone lives their life in the face of impending death. Yet we usually judge the quality of our lives by what we accomplish, not the mere postponement of the inevitable.

Climbers climb for the enjoyment of the experience, and to get to the top--not just to show that they can avoid falling. Alex is a rare elite climber, so he reaches for rare elite experiences and accomplishments.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#328

Post by BHSPitMonkey »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #197
japhyr wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that both Dan Osman and Dean Potter died in part due to park service policies. The park service allows all kinds of activities that cater to motorized tourists, but bans specialized activities like base jumping. Yosemite is one of the best places in the world to base jump, not just because of its beauty but because the cliffs are oriented well for base jumping. The ban pushes jumpers to fly at dawn…

A ban doesn't force anyone to do anything to break the ban. The correct response to the ban is to respect the parks wishes and stop BASE jumping. If you want to push the limits that's on you. You should know the risks and act accordingly.

This starts to resemble something like abstinence-only education in schools, though, where a hard-line stance of "just don't do the risky thing we've told you not to do and you'll be fine" leads to less successful real-world results than embracing the complex realities of human behavior.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#329

Post by petertodd »

hluska wrote: post #266
petertodd wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

El Capitan is granite, and perhaps even more importantly, it's very heavily climbed so for the most part anything that can break will have already been broken off by someone else.

I don't agree with that. In fact, I wear a helmet whenever I am near a wall because I have seen way too many formerly solid looking rocks fall, even on granite. Heck, a few years ago, a 2000 ton slab of rock fell off of Half Dome, which is a famous granite dome in Yosemite. I can't find the article now (of course), but I read a great article about how rock expands and contracts with the heat of the sun, water gets in…

You're missing a very important distinction though: for a solo climber the main thing out of their control that's different from normal rock climbing is holds breaking unexpectedly. For that risk, having lots of people climbing the rock helps increase the chances that such unexpectedly weak holds will have been broken already by someone else; obviously loose rock isn't so much of an issue, for the simple reason that you know it's loose and can climb appropriately.

Rock fall meanwhile is dangerous to all climbers, whether or not they're using ropes. Sure, it's more dangerous to a solo climber - you might get lucky and just get knocked out, something a rope can save you from - but we're talking about a moderate risk vs. high risk comparison, not zero-risk to high risk. That 2000 ton slab you gave isn't a very good example, because something that big has a pretty good chance of killing you rope or not.

FWIW, I do a lot of cave exploration, and in caves the "already broken off" effect is a very powerful one. Virgin passage that's never been explored before can be a very scary place to be because everything can be loose and ready to fall. This is particularly true in areas that undergo freeze-thaw cycles, such as upper parts of alpine caves - I've been in places where every single bit of rock, including the ceiling, is heavily fractured due to frost. Breakdown piles are also a big problem - they're huge piles of rocks and boulders, generally due to ceilings gradually collapsing, and you have to be really careful around ones that haven't been visited frequently because pretty much anything you stand on could be unstable. Lots of cavers have been trapped in breakdown piles that shifted unexpectedly.

The underlying cause of this problem in caves is simple: caves can be very static environments with no weather, increasing the chances that the force you exert on a rock will be the largest force it has ever experienced in that position.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#330

Post by protomyth »

dguaraglia wrote: post #183
vkou wrote: post #4

As a climber, I wish this were less widely publicized. Free soloing is extremely dangerous, and dozens of climbers - including experienced ones die doing it every year.

While I agree, I think it's a self-limiting problem: those of us who are completely outside of the sport would look at this and think "wow, what an amazing feat" but never fathom doing it. Those on the inside will know how hard and risky this is.

That's pretty much true of every profession. People on the outside are horrible at understanding the risk, amount of time needed, and how amazing something is. This is one of the examples where the risk and amazement are so extreme that and observer gets in the ballpark on the estimate.
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