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Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

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Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#171

Post by emodendroket »

wu-ikkyu wrote: post #162
thebspatrol wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd actually be really interested in knowing what percentage of people read opposing rhetoric. I easily spend far more time listening to and reading right-leaning rhetoric, despite being left leaning. I already know "my side". Why would I want to live in an echo chamber?

Have you ever considered that maybe both the big "left" and "right" media is itself an echo chamber?

Indeed, the points on which mainstream American "right" and "left" media agree with each other are more numerous than the points on which they disagree.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#172

Post by emodendroket »

arethuza wrote: post #115
thebspatrol wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd actually be really interested in knowing what percentage of people read opposing rhetoric. I easily spend far more time listening to and reading right-leaning rhetoric, despite being left leaning. I already know "my side". Why would I want to live in an echo chamber?

I've started doing that far more over the last year or so - I'm definitely "left leaning" but it's good to try and understand the viewpoint of others even if you don't agree with their conclusions. Echo chambers are boring.

I mean I don't feel like I get much out of listening to the same talking points trotted out over and over again, personally.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#173

Post by emodendroket »

Lordarminius wrote: post #161
closure wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. It took me until several years out of school to realize that learning to think should have been a primary focus of university. 25 years on I am realizing that although it got me work and very decent pay I probably would have been much better off if the entire focus of university had been: 1. Learning how to think 2. Learning how to learn Really the focus of earlier schooling probably should have been:…

So reading 'riting and 'rithmetic. The old wisdom wasn't so bad after all

I know our education system often fails to do this, but in principle by the time you're going to college you should have mastered those things already.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#174

Post by emodendroket »

amrrs wrote: post #72
closure wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. It took me until several years out of school to realize that learning to think should have been a primary focus of university. 25 years on I am realizing that although it got me work and very decent pay I probably would have been much better off if the entire focus of university had been: 1. Learning how to think 2. Learning how to learn Really the focus of earlier schooling probably should have been:…

Exactly. We're taught those things that Google can give us faster than our brain can recall, like "Capital of Peru???? https://hackernoon.com/learning-to-code-focus-on-when-rather...

http://www.aft.org/sites/default/files/periodicals/LookItUpS...

By not having the information in your head, you are less able to know what to search for and less able to contextualize and make sense of information you do turn up in a Google search.

Of course that doesn't mean that search is useless. But let's face it; if you and a random guy off the street were both asked to program something in a language you'd never used before, you would be much more able to handle the task because you'd understand what questions to ask (what's the modulo operator? how do you write a loop?) while the other guy flailed around trying to understand the basics.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#175

Post by emodendroket »

majewsky wrote: post #116
amrrs wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. We're taught those things that Google can give us faster than our brain can recall, like "Capital of Peru???? https://hackernoon.com/learning-to-code-focus-on-when-rather...

Reminds me about a segment on Last Week Tonight where they showed a map of South America, with one country highlighted as Peru. And John Oliver said, "Peru! A country you care so little about you didn't even realize this isn't Peru... [Highlight changes to another country] THIS is Peru." And he's got a point. There's not much advantage to knowing the precise locations of all countries on earth, unless you're working…

In fact one reason so many people have such confused ideas about foreign politics is a lack of understanding of geography.

Consider: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/14/upshot/if-ame...

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#176

Post by camelNotation »

> Results of a standardized measure of reasoning ability show many students fail to improve...

The irony of this sentence is painful. The entire reason most colleges fail to improve reasoning - something everyone has known for a while now - is because of standardization and industry-oriented training. They've transformed into advanced trade schools, caring more about selling products (graduates) than producing well-rounded, capable leaders. The entire idea of a standardized test is to produce the very metrics they use to sell those products.

And you know what the worst part about it all is? They are using the old college model (4-year baccalaureate programs) to do what could be done just as effectively in about two years. So they aren't even good at what they are TRYING to do.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#177

Post by JordanFrankfurt »

xchip wrote: post #142

Critical thinking skills are not taught because they teach you how to question authority, and that means criticizing parents, teachers and the system. Socrates already tried doing that and was accused of corrupting youth (and got him condemned to death)

Ironically (maybe not?), the biggest dispute I ever had was with a philosophy prof over his condemnation of a student's contrary interpretation of montesquieu.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#178

Post by agentgt »

Is it possible a large portion of the observed behavior of critical thinking personality based (ie Jung Theory)?

That is to say could it be certain personalities are more likely to analyze. They may not be smarter or even more educated but are more drawn to problem solving and analysis than others.

So even if the individuals were taught to perhaps be more logical, detail oriented, not reactive, etc it maybe incredibly unnatural such that a normal psych test may not elicit the behavior.... just a theory... I'm probably wrong.

While it seems critical thinking is a good thing it might be in some cases detrimental particularly if it requires more time. That is reactive individuals who prefer not to rely on critical thinking might be able to make critical decisions quicker (albeit possibly incorrect).

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#179

Post by cryoshon »

agentgt wrote: post #178

Is it possible a large portion of the observed behavior of critical thinking personality based (ie Jung Theory)? That is to say could it be certain personalities are more likely to analyze. They may not be smarter or even more educated but are more drawn to problem solving and analysis than others. So even if the individuals were taught to perhaps be more logical, detail oriented, not reactive, etc it maybe incredibl…

I'd put it on some sort of bio-psycho-social-economic-educational axis.

not everyone has the spark... some can develop it, and some clearly have it from early in their life, before the other factors could have an impact.

i'd say the biggest division is introversion vs extroversion. extroverts are the majority of people and are more likely to engage with the world via their senses rather than their analytical capacity by definition.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#180

Post by cryoshon »

ThomPete wrote: post #141
xaa wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my view critical thinking without constructive thinking is as big a problem as no critical thinking. I disagree. I see critical thinking as a prerequisite for constructive thinking. Without the ability to identify problems, you can't offer solutions. I and many fellow students in grad school went through exactly this evolution. First, you are taught to be critical and skeptical of everything. But at some point,…

Well by definition it can't be a prerequisite. Constructive thinking must have come first otherwise there was nothing to think critically about :) Joke aside: Critical Thinking isn't going to save the world. It's a fallacy in the same line of; if only people were more rational or more logical. It has it's uses but it also has it's mis-uses.

>Critical Thinking isn't going to save the world

true, but why is

>if only people were more rational or more logical.

a fallacy? we can see pretty clean data that show more education = better societal outcomes...

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