The far-reaching effects of air conditioning • Hacker News Board

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#91

Post by joncrocks » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 10:23 AM UTC

projectorlochsa wrote: post #52

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My office space in china would keep the temperature around 24-26C in the summer. My arms would literally sweat to the desk when typing (I'm not a completely in the air tyoer, as a programmer I don't need to be). I had to hit a cooler Starbucks with a laptop to get things done it was so annoying. I much would have preferred it being a bit colder, around 20C is best, even if I would wear a light jacket at that temp...a…

It sounds very weird. If the space is closed, the AC makes the air dryer, so sweating should be minimal on these low temperatures (dampness is hell). Are you sitting next to a window that is blasting its rays over your body? Is the building badly designed? Are you protected by a layer of fat cells? Sweating at 24-26C without sunlight blasting at you is very anomalous. Lowering the AC to 20C or below is such an insane…

As someone that lives in the UK, 24-26C is where you would find me in a T-shirt and shorts and probably still feeling warm. Any physical or mental exertion will probably lead to a bit of sweating.

21 degrees is what I would consider a 'normal' room temperature, anything above 23 I would consider 'warm'.

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#92

Post by yxhuvud » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 10:35 AM UTC

TomK32 wrote: post #43

Why did no one mention the Romans yet? They came up with the frigidarium where you could literally cool down with your friends and some private houses even had water running inside their walls to cool it down (or hot air in the colder months). Temperature control in buildings is 100% architecture and technical add-ons like AC are a poor choice. Look at termites how they use architecture to cool their hives.

I wonder why central cooling hasn't taken off like central heating has. It seems to me that the economy of scale would work really well with cold just as it does with heat.

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#93

Post by L_Rahman » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 10:58 AM UTC

jaseemabid wrote: post #2

Unless you have lived in the tropical humid heat, you wont be able to relate to this. Moving to NYC recently and living without an AC or even a fan feels so glorious. I bet 10% of my brain was constantly fighting the heat back when I was in south of India.

I grew up in Bangladesh and I promise you there will be summer days in NY that will just as sweltering as the warmest, muggiest, air sticks to your body days in South Asia.

Might be good to buy an AC before then ;)

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#94

Post by woofyman » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 10:58 AM UTC

In the Southern USA, AC radically changed the culture. It allowed businesses to relocate their factories to take advantage of cheap labor.

It also changed a slower paced culture where people spent their evenings on their front porch socializing with their neighbors to a more insular, face paced one.

I grew up in South Florida without AC.

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#95

Post by yxhuvud » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 11:00 AM UTC

adrianmonk wrote: post #41

ishi wrote: post #8

The downside of air conditioned homes is that houses are now built with very little regard to insulation and intelligent use of the sun (to warm the house at winter) and the wind (to cool it during summertime). My house has a large, paper-thin southern wall and during the summer it gets so hot that it radiates heat into the house at night. So I have to air-condition my bedroom at night. And the windows are stupidly d…

Being from Texas, that is such a strange perspective to me. Around here, air conditioning is the main reason why you need insulation. Heating isn't a major concern. Many houses have electric heat because it just isn't worth the cost to put in something more efficient. But air conditioning is needed a large part of the year. And in the summer it gets quite hot, so electric bills can be very expensive. So in any newer…

I guess it is a progression where people learn from the problems they had before.

Step 1: It is too hot/cold here

Step 2: Lets put in heating/AC

Step 3: Damn, the electric costs are getting too high. Lets put in insulation and double-pane windows (well, actually three-pane is standard here in Sweden) to keep down the costs.

The further you live to extreme heat or cold the faster a society progress down the ladder. Which is also a reason the death rates during winter is a lot higher (per capita) in central Europe than it is in northern Europe - people in the northern parts have long since been forced to learn to build better houses whereas people in mild climates can afford to fail as it isn't that many days a year that it is a problem.

Have any part of Texas considered central cooling? It should be even more effective than having units in every house as long as it isn't too damp and the water needs to be removed as well. But perhaps that kind of solution would be too socialistic for you :P

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#96

Post by snarfy » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 11:04 AM UTC

arethuza wrote: post #48

eBombzor wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decreasing the AC doesn't mean people will start sweating themselves. 75 - 78 F is perfect but most buildings for some reason turn their ACs all the way down to the 60s. For athletic centers, of course it makes sense. But in big open libraries, lecture halls, places with little activity in general, it's awful. It's especially bad for your health if you live in a hot region like southern California since your body has…

I suspect it very much depends what you are used to - I probably think of 15C as "comfortable" and 25C inside would be sweltering. Having said that I'm in Scotland - the other day we had heavy rain and it was 8C which is weather we could get at any time of the year!

After moving from Phoenix to the Seattle area, I've noticed the 'feels like' temperature is about 11C difference. 30C in Phoenix feels like 19C in Seattle.

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#97

Post by snarfy » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 11:07 AM UTC

pluma wrote: post #50

eBombzor wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decreasing the AC doesn't mean people will start sweating themselves. 75 - 78 F is perfect but most buildings for some reason turn their ACs all the way down to the 60s. For athletic centers, of course it makes sense. But in big open libraries, lecture halls, places with little activity in general, it's awful. It's especially bad for your health if you live in a hot region like southern California since your body has…

In Germany ~70°F (19-20°C) is considered "room temperature". 75°F is too damn warm. My brain pretty much stops working around 77°F.

I recall reading (no ref) that nazi experiments determined the optimal temperature for mental performance was 59F, which coincidentally is the average temperature of the earth.

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#98

Post by arethuza » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 11:09 AM UTC

snarfy wrote: post #96

arethuza wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect it very much depends what you are used to - I probably think of 15C as "comfortable" and 25C inside would be sweltering. Having said that I'm in Scotland - the other day we had heavy rain and it was 8C which is weather we could get at any time of the year!

After moving from Phoenix to the Seattle area, I've noticed the 'feels like' temperature is about 11C difference. 30C in Phoenix feels like 19C in Seattle.

Humidity and/or wind?

I've noticed temperatures in Scotland on mountains feeling much colder than lower temperatures in the Alps.

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#99

Post by spodek » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 11:11 AM UTC

Low-tech magazine has an article on how useful ceiling fans are: http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2014/09/circulating-fans-air-....

They don't pollute nearly as much and work remarkably well. I live in Manhattan, which gets hot and humid in the summer, and basically never turn on my air conditioning even though I pay for my share of the building's central air conditioning. I don't need it and prefer not to cause the pollution.

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#100

Post by blackguardx » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 11:16 AM UTC

yxhuvud wrote: post #92

TomK32 wrote: post #43

Why did no one mention the Romans yet? They came up with the frigidarium where you could literally cool down with your friends and some private houses even had water running inside their walls to cool it down (or hot air in the colder months). Temperature control in buildings is 100% architecture and technical add-ons like AC are a poor choice. Look at termites how they use architecture to cool their hives.

I wonder why central cooling hasn't taken off like central heating has. It seems to me that the economy of scale would work really well with cold just as it does with heat.

In the US, centralized AC is the norm in the numerous suburban houses. Newer apartment buildings in cities have centralized AC and window units are usually only used in older buildings.