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The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

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Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#41

Post by adrianmonk »

ishi wrote: post #8

The downside of air conditioned homes is that houses are now built with very little regard to insulation and intelligent use of the sun (to warm the house at winter) and the wind (to cool it during summertime). My house has a large, paper-thin southern wall and during the summer it gets so hot that it radiates heat into the house at night. So I have to air-condition my bedroom at night. And the windows are stupidly d…

Being from Texas, that is such a strange perspective to me. Around here, air conditioning is the main reason why you need insulation.

Heating isn't a major concern. Many houses have electric heat because it just isn't worth the cost to put in something more efficient.

But air conditioning is needed a large part of the year. And in the summer it gets quite hot, so electric bills can be very expensive. So in any newer construction, there is a lot of effort to make things energy-efficient. Houses have double-pane windows, radiant barriers, thick insulation, and leak tests to make sure that hot/humid air from outside cannot make its way in.

There are certainly older buildings that aren't very energy-efficient, but around here I don't see that as being because of air conditioning.

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#42

Post by jogjayr »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #36
kijin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every summer, I see a couple of posts on HN about some supposedly groundbreaking scheme to cool a building by a few degrees without using an traditional A/C. Usually it's a combination of ventilation and evaporation, resulting in somewhat cooler but much more humid air. I guess it might work in the Bay Area. But as someone who lives where I regularly see temperatures higher than the human body temperature with humidi…

Most people in the Bay Area don't need AC. Swamp coolers don't work in the tropics, obviously. They are great in the desert though (except during monsoon season). In the tropics, you cool by extracting humidity, not injecting it. And extracting humidity might not work very well in a very dry desert...so... The ice block thing worked perfectly fine in Iran, at least.

> Most people in the Bay Area don't need AC.

I second that. The Bay Area has this gloriously perfect climate where you need nothing more than a table or ceiling fan in the summer, a small electric space heater in the winter and nothing at all most of the time. With the right architecture and insulation you could spend almost nothing on heating or cooling.

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#43

Post by TomK32 »

Why did no one mention the Romans yet? They came up with the frigidarium where you could literally cool down with your friends and some private houses even had water running inside their walls to cool it down (or hot air in the colder months).

Temperature control in buildings is 100% architecture and technical add-ons like AC are a poor choice. Look at termites how they use architecture to cool their hives.

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#44

Post by _pmf_ »

TomK32 wrote: post #43

Why did no one mention the Romans yet? They came up with the frigidarium where you could literally cool down with your friends and some private houses even had water running inside their walls to cool it down (or hot air in the colder months). Temperature control in buildings is 100% architecture and technical add-ons like AC are a poor choice. Look at termites how they use architecture to cool their hives.

> Temperature control in buildings is 100% architecture and technical add-ons like AC are a poor choice. Look at termites how they use architecture to cool their hives.

Clay for the win. Even using a very thin clay based upper layer does incredible things to the room climate.

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#45

Post by Tharkun »

superasn wrote: post #31

Throughout the article I was waiting for the "But.." As in some how it also deteriorated the global weather, caused some unknown sort of pollution, etc. It was good to see that Air conditioning has only improved the world and has no side-effects.

Or you know, wastes inordinate of energy, especially in areas where insulation and ventilation could achieve similar comfort levels.

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#46

Post by exodust »

superasn wrote: post #31

Throughout the article I was waiting for the "But.." As in some how it also deteriorated the global weather, caused some unknown sort of pollution, etc. It was good to see that Air conditioning has only improved the world and has no side-effects.

Massive energy consumption to the point of overloading power grids on hot days continues to be a problem in some areas.

Massive increase in cost of electricity is due largely to the infrastructure needs of meeting peak demand events caused by sudden widespread AC use.

Those who don't use AC in their homes are still paying higher prices in order that the system can cater for the people who use AC.

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#47

Post by vacri »

SeoxyS wrote: post #15
hobo_mark wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise, I just came back from HK and I have no idea how they could get anything done there before the introduction of AC. And I was told it gets even worse in the middle of summer!

I went to HK in the middle of hottest times (Aug 1st) last year and it was absolutely brutal. But then again, the entire city really grew out of nowhere during the past century, so it kind of grew in tandem with air conditioning. HK is one of those places that's absolutely amazing as a city, and has some of the worst weather on earth (crazy humidity all the time, insane heat in summer, crazy rains and typhoons all th…

> typhoons all the time

Spare a thought for the Philippines - the wikipedia typhoon path picture almost completely covers the entire country (HK is hidden in there too, though)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoon#/media/File:Pacific_ty...

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#48

Post by arethuza »

eBombzor wrote: post #25
pitaj wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better have it too cold and people where extra clothing than have people sweating themselves. You can always put more clothes on, you can't take off your skin.

Decreasing the AC doesn't mean people will start sweating themselves. 75 - 78 F is perfect but most buildings for some reason turn their ACs all the way down to the 60s. For athletic centers, of course it makes sense. But in big open libraries, lecture halls, places with little activity in general, it's awful. It's especially bad for your health if you live in a hot region like southern California since your body has…

I suspect it very much depends what you are used to - I probably think of 15C as "comfortable" and 25C inside would be sweltering. Having said that I'm in Scotland - the other day we had heavy rain and it was 8C which is weather we could get at any time of the year!

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#49

Post by steveax »

johnchristopher wrote: post #26
pitaj wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better have it too cold and people where extra clothing than have people sweating themselves. You can always put more clothes on, you can't take off your skin.

Ever try coding with mittens :-) ? Humor aside, there's a point for me at which even with more clothes the AC is too cold or aggressive and I end up with headaches. Fortunately I am aware of it and I try to be preventive about it (by moving away from the thing).

Bob Cratchit fingerless gloves FTW :-)

Seriously though, I live without AC at home (Portland, OR, so not a real hardship) and often wear a cap and vest during the winter. I kinda like having more connection to the outside temperature.

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#50

Post by pluma »

eBombzor wrote: post #25
pitaj wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better have it too cold and people where extra clothing than have people sweating themselves. You can always put more clothes on, you can't take off your skin.

Decreasing the AC doesn't mean people will start sweating themselves. 75 - 78 F is perfect but most buildings for some reason turn their ACs all the way down to the 60s. For athletic centers, of course it makes sense. But in big open libraries, lecture halls, places with little activity in general, it's awful. It's especially bad for your health if you live in a hot region like southern California since your body has…

In Germany ~70°F (19-20°C) is considered "room temperature".

75°F is too damn warm. My brain pretty much stops working around 77°F.

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