Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat • Hacker News Board

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#61

Post by artorias » Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 4:08 PM UTC

wombatpm wrote: post #46

metaphorm wrote: post #22

I'm so conflicted right now. On the one hand, yeah, that shit is offensive and I'm not too keen on elevating a person who makes jokes about sexual assault or violence against minorities. On the other hand I'm terrified at the creeping surveillance society that has institutions examining all of our utterances for "wrong speech", which is much too close for comfort to "wrong think", which is much too close for comfort…

The word you are looking for is thoughtcrime. Thoughtcrime is doubleplusungood.

This guy gets it.

Orwell is rollin' in his grave right now.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#62

Post by wehere1 » Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 4:08 PM UTC

nxsynonym wrote: post #48

Frondo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am perfectly fine with private organizations banning whoever they like for posting racist shit. Racist shit is "wrong speech". If I have friends who start uttering racist shit, and I can't talk them out of it, they are no longer my friends. (This has happened precisely once, no regrets. Thanks, Fox News, for poisoning an old man's mind.) Posting racist memes is wrong, saying racist things is wrong, thinking racist…

because free speech is universal. You can't cherry pick what topics/views/opinions are protected based on your world view.

every time these topics come up, someone always claims 'b-but muh freeze peach' - 'free speech' refers to the right to voice one's opinions without government retaliation or censorship. society and organizations still have the right to act accordingly. you can't walk into a wal-mart yelling racial slurs and claim 'free speech' as reason to not get kicked out

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#63

Post by misterbowfinger » Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 4:09 PM UTC

metaphorm wrote: post #22

I'm so conflicted right now. On the one hand, yeah, that shit is offensive and I'm not too keen on elevating a person who makes jokes about sexual assault or violence against minorities. On the other hand I'm terrified at the creeping surveillance society that has institutions examining all of our utterances for "wrong speech", which is much too close for comfort to "wrong think", which is much too close for comfort…

I agree that what they posted was offensive. But we can't start holding graduating high school students to the same standards we hold world and business leaders. Ironically, we didn't for Trump, but that's certainly the idea.

Revoking one's admission to Harvard is a really rough way to teach the lesson of what you're supposed to and not supposed to say. College is the time to not only learn new ideas, but also to un-learn things that you may have learned in a toxic environment. I can say that I certainly did, and it's only fair that we allow others to fail in a similar way.

I believe that actions like this only further foster the alt-right and do a great disservice to our current political atmosphere. These kids have no positive way to understand their punishment - they have been reprimanded by a power that controls their fate, without warning. The odds that they'll "learn" from their "mistake" is highly unlikely.

Comparing this to fascism is a little heavy, but not out of line.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#64

Post by weberc2 » Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 4:09 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #21

pyroinferno wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the concern here is that it was private.

Why? People are totally within their rights to share these things in public or in private. Private institutions, including Harvard, are totally within their rights to rescind admissions offers because of it.

And private individuals are well within their rights to point out that Harvard's actions are inconsistent with their purported values of free speech.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#65

Post by fao_ » Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 4:09 PM UTC

nxsynonym wrote: post #48

Frondo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am perfectly fine with private organizations banning whoever they like for posting racist shit. Racist shit is "wrong speech". If I have friends who start uttering racist shit, and I can't talk them out of it, they are no longer my friends. (This has happened precisely once, no regrets. Thanks, Fox News, for poisoning an old man's mind.) Posting racist memes is wrong, saying racist things is wrong, thinking racist…

because free speech is universal. You can't cherry pick what topics/views/opinions are protected based on your world view.

People protecting the right of racists to spread racism, support racism. It cannot be any other way. You cannot claim that you dislike racism, and and also want to preserve it.

Also, "Free speech" refers to the fact that the government cannot bust in to your house with a SWAT team and arrest you for speaking something that they don't like. Private companies can enforce whatever speech rules they like, and that doesn't interfere with the free speech of the individual. They can walk outside and state those things. There are already numerous hate speech laws covering the fact that the first amendment does not mean that you have a right to say whatever you want in a private space.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#66

Post by std_throwaway » Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 4:09 PM UTC

g051051 wrote: post #41

Considering how competitive the acceptance criteria are for Harvard (2,056 out of 39,506 applications), this is just another decision point. Now 10 other people are able to get in, and the entire body of current and prospective students have learned a valuable lesson about privacy and free speech.

...that privacy probably doesn't exist and free speech shouldn't be used.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#67

Post by modzu » Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 4:09 PM UTC

creepy treehouse

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#68

Post by SurrealSoul » Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 4:09 PM UTC

My fraternity got suspended because someone trash talked some administration person on our private chat page. Turns out one of our members really disliked the trash talker and the insult in general and reported the incident. The private group chat in Harvard probably either has a [for lack of better word] tattle tail, or even a shadow member who is associated with advisors to take into consideration what the new members are saying.

Long story short, these young people are getting their first dose of 'what happens in Vegas, is likely to cause long-term relationship issues'

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#69

Post by khrm » Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 4:10 PM UTC

Frondo wrote: post #37

metaphorm wrote: post #22

I'm so conflicted right now. On the one hand, yeah, that shit is offensive and I'm not too keen on elevating a person who makes jokes about sexual assault or violence against minorities. On the other hand I'm terrified at the creeping surveillance society that has institutions examining all of our utterances for "wrong speech", which is much too close for comfort to "wrong think", which is much too close for comfort…

I am perfectly fine with private organizations banning whoever they like for posting racist shit. Racist shit is "wrong speech". If I have friends who start uttering racist shit, and I can't talk them out of it, they are no longer my friends. (This has happened precisely once, no regrets. Thanks, Fox News, for poisoning an old man's mind.) Posting racist memes is wrong, saying racist things is wrong, thinking racist…

It's not easy to draw line. What about some light racist jokes? Or jokes demeaning wives(fairly common in India) or blonde women? Most seems fine with it but what happens when this line move a bit more further? In Hollywood movies, I have seen comedies doing all this and people applauding it. I believe we need a firm policy of no jokes with a hint of racism or sexism.

Or have absolute free speech. You can't be cherry picking stuffs.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#70

Post by calciphus » Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 4:10 PM UTC

nxsynonym wrote: post #48

Frondo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am perfectly fine with private organizations banning whoever they like for posting racist shit. Racist shit is "wrong speech". If I have friends who start uttering racist shit, and I can't talk them out of it, they are no longer my friends. (This has happened precisely once, no regrets. Thanks, Fox News, for poisoning an old man's mind.) Posting racist memes is wrong, saying racist things is wrong, thinking racist…

because free speech is universal. You can't cherry pick what topics/views/opinions are protected based on your world view.

Free speech means the government won't arrest you for it. It does not mean private institutions and friend groups must endure it. Free speech does not mean speech without consequences.

Relevant xkcd, as always!

https://xkcd.com/1357/