India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green • Hacker News Board

Re: India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green

#141

Post by ian0 » Sat, Jun 03, 2017, 1:15 PM UTC

danbolt wrote: post #20

kornish wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In many ways it's similar to how telephony spread in the developing world. They skipped landlines entirely and went straight to GSM. And also how banking/payment is spreading in Africa: mobile-to-mobile, skipping credit cards entirely.

I love the elegance and futurism of paying with mobile phones like that, but do the telephone companies operate in a similar manner to financial institutions there? For instance, if I deposit money, do I receive interest? What happens to my funds if the phone company goes bankrupt? Are there similar regulations to banks?

It depends on the country but typically there is a set of central bank regulations which attempt to ensure adequate safeguards are in place when non-banks offer banking services. Example protection of the float for stored value wallets and enforcement of anti-money laundering KYC for peer to peer transfer.

Central banks also tend to (sometimes sensibly) clamp down on services that are closer to core (profitable? :P) banking services like interest & loans, so telco wallets with this functionality built in house are much rarer.

Re: India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green

#142

Post by likelynew » Sat, Jun 03, 2017, 1:46 PM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #101

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #61

I wonder why NYT conveniently chose to ignore the previous US administration's WTO complaint on India's local component requirements for solar panels and it's subsequent verdict against India. India required US solar panel manufacturers to source cells from locally, which was challenged by US in WTO and subsequently awarded in it's favour. So it's not just India is moving forward with green energy in spite of 'unfair…

They didn't ignore it. It's just irrelevant to the current topic at hand. India and quite a number of other countries e.g. China play this game all the time with industries. Look at what Apple went through for example to establish a presence in India.

Wait. I don't think apple example is relevant here. They already has a very big share in flagship mobiles(I don't know a better word, say of $500 or more), I think more so than other countries. The problem is India has very low share of flagship mobiles. Apple now plans to make the cheaper C models in India, but nowhere forced to, and given some leivy in manufacturing those locally.

Re: India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green

#143

Post by likelynew » Sat, Jun 03, 2017, 1:49 PM UTC

xrange wrote: post #108

threeseed wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear power is such a mess though. There's the political logistics of getting the fuel, figuring out how and where to dispose of the fuel, the NIMBY problem with plant locations and the fact that in general its politically very unpopular.

That sounds like it is true for western countries, but China has a lot of nuclear power coming online, and what are the attitudes in India?

It's the same. While liberal class sees nuclear as future, no one wants a nuclear plant opened in their city. See: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/environment/news/article.cfm?c_id=... for an example

Re: India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green

#144

Post by likelynew » Sat, Jun 03, 2017, 1:53 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #33

One thing I learned on a trip to Kerala is that most people in the region actually burn their garbage - the government doesn't provide disposal service. While I'm sure the particulate and chemical emissions of this practice are awful, I'm curious about this carbon implications.

It's done everywhere in India. But it's far from truth that government doesn't provide waste disposal service. Nevertheless, you might not like to see huge government waste grounds.

Re: India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green

#145

Post by rustoo » Sat, Jun 03, 2017, 2:03 PM UTC

As an Indian, I'm really proud to read this. I'm hoping that they strategize this well and execute it well. India can easily harness wind and solar energy, create an really strong energy surplus and supply it to neighboring countries.

The whole region can benefit. India can be a beacon of peace and use it to stabilize the region and become a leader.

Re: India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green

#146

Post by mortehu » Sat, Jun 03, 2017, 2:43 PM UTC

konschubert wrote: post #122

djohnston wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arbitrage opportunity?

The higher interest rate covers the higher inflation. Currencies are very well arbitraged already, I wouldn't expect any inefficiencies to profit from.

But check this out:

http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/workshops/finance/pdf/Verdel...

"We find that deviations from the covered interest rate parity condition (CIP) imply large, persistent, and systematic arbitrage opportunities in one of the largest asset markets in the world. Contrary to the common view, these deviations for major currencies are not explained away by credit risk or transaction costs."

Re: India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green

#147

Post by mabcat » Sat, Jun 03, 2017, 2:56 PM UTC

golergka wrote: post #136

andrewwharton wrote: post #37

Ha! Try telling this to the current Australian government... The current narrative is that India desperately needs coal and our coal is the cleanest, so we need to dig it up [1] and sell it to them to help fight climate change, because otherwise they're going to get 'dirtier' coal from somewhere else. If you disagree, then you believe that Indians don't deserve electricity. And this isn't a strawman, this is almost v…

That's so weird. Why does he have to come up with weird justifications to digging up and selling something that people are willing to buy?

Digging up and selling our coal has a range of horrible environmental effects both short and long term. Short term includes: massive use of water that we need for agriculture and environmental flows, destruction of marine environment from dredging so coal ships can get in, giant holes in landscape. Long term: more of the same ocean warming that's killed about 50% of the Great Barrier Reef already. Google Adani coal mine for more on what Australians are pissed about. If you'd like a more strictly economic argument, the sale price sure doesn't cover the damage.

Re: India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green

#148

Post by lenkite » Sat, Jun 03, 2017, 3:32 PM UTC

starik36 wrote: post #115

threeseed wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course India was allowed to use more coal. Paris is a voluntary agreement. India, like all countries, can do whatever on earth they want. Just like Trump could've stayed in the agreement, behind the scenes done absolutely nothing for the environment (like he is now) and there would've been a lot less criticism. The fact he didn't choose this option tells you everything. It was a political decision only.

Doesn't it also stop the transfer of money from US to other countries e.g. the $100 billion annually funded by the developed nations for developing nations? If that's the case, it's not a political decision only.

I am highly amused that you truly believe Trumps speech that India is getting hundreds of billions of dollars from the US for the Paris agreement.

"Contesting Trump's claims of 'billions and billions and billions' of foreign aid to India, the TOI report noted that total foreign aid to India in 2015 was only $3.1 billion, with US aid to India only around $100 million. These figures are further expected to drop down to $34 million in 2018.

It is interesting to note that India buys $100 million worth of California almonds alone every year, besides billions in armaments from the US."

Re: India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green

#149

Post by rsync » Sat, Jun 03, 2017, 4:21 PM UTC

matt4077 wrote: post #95

Pxtl wrote: post #33

One thing I learned on a trip to Kerala is that most people in the region actually burn their garbage - the government doesn't provide disposal service. While I'm sure the particulate and chemical emissions of this practice are awful, I'm curious about this carbon implications.

CO_2 emissions are the same if it goes up in big black smokes of clouds next to some school, or if it's burned in the best incinerator money can buy, or even if it's thrown in the ocean and slowly degraded by organic means. The only thing that makes a difference is recycling.

"CO_2 emissions are the same if it goes up in big black smokes of clouds next to some school, or if it's burned in the best incinerator money can buy"

Is that really true ?

I was under the impression that the very best incinerators (what nordic countries use for garbage disposal as well as cities like Zurich, etc.) had carbon capture mechanisms ...

Is that not true ?

Re: India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green

#150

Post by kartickv » Sat, Jun 03, 2017, 4:29 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #135

kartickv wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not many in India would see things the way you do. Why lose interest if you can get it, particularly if you don't have more interest coming in from mutual funds or someplace else? If anything, the competition is on to see who'll pay more interest. One payments bank announced 7%: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/wealth/personal-finance-...

What's the post inflation adjusted interest rate? Because simply moving your money to a low inflation currency does the same thing. The only catch is that the payments banks, which do not offer loans and several other facilities offered by full fledged rivals, are not allowed to accept deposits beyond Rs 1 lakh in bank accounts, which will have the same number as your mobile number. Bharti Airtel chairman Sunil Bhart…

Moving money to a low inflation currency sounds good in theory, but is not an accessible solution to the average Indian, and is fraught with bureaucracy and fees even for those it is accessible to. I put my money in a liquid fund (debt mutual fund) to earn 8% nominal interest rate. That's a much more practical solution than moving it to dollars, say.

Airtel's offer may be temporary, and interest rates rarely go to 7%, but the point is that there's always a competition on interest rates.

India's inflation and nominal interest rates are both higher, which means you lose more if you forgo interest. In a hypothetical country with 5% inflation and a 5% interest rate, if you forgo interest, you lose 5% every year. In a country with 2% inflation and 2% interest rate, you lose only 2%.