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An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

scientificamerican.com

171–180 of 198 posts

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't remember my high school report card having a difficulty rating on the class. I would be very interested in data on the number of high schools that do this weighting.

When I was in high school in the Dallas area, AP classes were all weighted one-step-up-the-scale. A's were 5, B's were 4, etc. I forget the max GPA in our class, it was somewhere between 4 and 5, but I don't think it was the theoretical max you could get if you took as many AP classes as possible and got A's in all of them. Colleges weren't stupid about it, either, though. My brother had a lower GPA since he went to…

We had pretty strict biology teacher and pretty lenient physics teacher - both classes equivalent of AP. So I would pick physics if GPA mattered to me a lot.

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#172
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trick is to change your metrics often enough, so people can never be sure they gamed the right one.

"You mean I spent a hundred hours volunteering at the soup kitchen for nothing‽"

Perfect!

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing a bunch of stuff in high school is a pretty big indicator that you are from an affluent school and/or an affluent background. The rest of us had after school jobs or chores. Never mind the parents that can arrange those unpaid internships. As to after school clubs, we didn't have any because we didn't have the money to pay teachers to stay around. If a school actually care about the diversity of its students, t…

I'm more impressed with the kid who came from a broken home in a terrible school district who managed to graduate and do well than I am with the kid who had every advantage but was also involved with the student politics and choir (or whatever).

Indeed. Out of six years of reading scholarship applications, the most impressive extracurricular activity I've read about was working at McDonalds -- because it was clear that they had been given nothing in life for free, and had spent years working every available hour trying to put together money to cover the cost of their education.

That demonstrates commitment in a way that volunteering for worthy causes never will.

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you have an axe to grind, especially since you cite no evidence yourself... How would you measure "less ethical," anyway? Are we more ethical now than 200 years ago or less, in your view? According to Gallup, 91% of Americans in 1948 claimed to be Christian, compared to 69% in 2016. [0] I would assume "formally religious" is tracks similarly. Personally, I think we are less ethical, but since I wasn't aro…

> In 2016, the more popular claim is moral relativism, namely that there is no absolute right or wrong. No, it's not. Conservatives love to pretend that disagreement with their values is rejection of all values, but that is simply not the case.

I've never heard conservatives say that rejecting their values is a rejection of all values. I don't think that a conservative would say that liberals have no values; liberals have very clear values. I can't speak for the ones you've interacted with, but I've never heard that.

Regarding moral relativism, the argument, as I understand it, is that post-modernism rejects any meta-narrative; you decide for yourself what the narrative is. Moral absolutism requires a meta-narrative of some form. This is right because God told us it is, or because this is the core value our nation is founded on, etc. So without a meta-narrative, you have to define your own, and so you are left with moral relativism.

It's possible that post-modernism is no longer widely held. I'd probably be the last to know about it. If that's the case, then maybe there is moral absolutism. Certainly there seems to be an idea in some circles that protecting the environment, and/or everyone has a right to express their sexuality however they want to are absolutes. But a truly moral absolutism provides an absolute basis, and I'm not aware of any absolutes for these. Environmentalism is a pragmatic source: if we don't do it, we might die off, but perhaps dying off is actually best. (I don't agree, but philosophically speaking) And what basis is there for everyone having a right to doing things? There are things we decided we don't have the right to do (kill people, for example). Why, exactly, does everyone have the right to express their sexuality however they want? Moral absolutism requires some fundamental, unalterable reason. Moral relativism simply requires "I think this way."

I'm not very sure what most people's world views are, but everything I am aware of points to a moral relativistic view, rather than a moral absolutist view.

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you have an axe to grind, especially since you cite no evidence yourself... How would you measure "less ethical," anyway? Are we more ethical now than 200 years ago or less, in your view? According to Gallup, 91% of Americans in 1948 claimed to be Christian, compared to 69% in 2016. [0] I would assume "formally religious" is tracks similarly. Personally, I think we are less ethical, but since I wasn't aro…

> Personally, I think we are less ethical What does this mean to you?

When I wrote it I was thinking of the lack of statesmen. I can think of a number of politicians from 1800 - 1960 who were Statesmen. I'm thinking someone who is wise and who is willing to make sacrifices to bring about a better future for people he may not even know. I can't think of any major politician since then that really stands out as a Statesman.

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#176
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with these is that they couldn't have been significant enough to make a dent in the outcome. Pretty much all significant achievements are fact-checkable. E.g. you may falsely claim that you were doing karate or basketball, but if you did win any trophies, then most selective schools wouldn't care about you.

You might be surprised. I was on the committee which adjudicated major entrance scholarships for six years, and I can count on my fingers the number of times someone said "can we get some verification of this?" We've never thought that fraud was a common problem, and when you're competing to recruit the top students you really don't want to go back to them and accuse them of dishonesty.. And (although we're revising…

" nobody spends 15 years playing violin or becomes a national chess master simply because it will look good on their resume."

I don't understand why is doing doing extracurricular in order to get to good university seen as "gaming". If anything, it is quite responsible behavior.

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#177
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with doing a bunch of stuff instead of being the best? These kids are in high school, maybe they just wanna try out a bunch of clubs and see what interests them in college and beyond.

There is nothing wrong with that, but why should trying out a bunch of stuff make someone more eligible for a scholarship?

Why shold being good at violin or sport give you non musical scholarship?

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#178
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be surprised. I was on the committee which adjudicated major entrance scholarships for six years, and I can count on my fingers the number of times someone said "can we get some verification of this?" We've never thought that fraud was a common problem, and when you're competing to recruit the top students you really don't want to go back to them and accuse them of dishonesty.. And (although we're revising…

" nobody spends 15 years playing violin or becomes a national chess master simply because it will look good on their resume." I don't understand why is doing doing extracurricular in order to get to good university seen as "gaming". If anything, it is quite responsible behavior.

its a waste of human capital to learn something you know you wont ever enjoy just to get into university.

a system based on such bullshit is immoral.

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#179
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best way to handle sarcasm and negativity is, in my opinion, to reduce contact and/or interaction. To not reward such behavior and instead choose to associate with positive people. The problem is that school-kids are forced into repeated, unsupervised interactions where they are often deliberately and persistently targeted by aggressors. Out of curiosity, what purpose does sarcasm serve you? What do you get out o…

>Out of curiosity, what purpose does sarcasm serve you? "Ha ha, only serious". Gentle mockery can be a non-threatening way of expressing grievances and telling people difficult truths. A joke can be a very useful way of letting someone know that they're annoying us, that their work isn't up to par or that their haircut is unflattering. It's why the British excel at it - we're not very good at blunt truths, so we tend…

Or you could directly tell them they are annoying or that they work is not sufficient instead of being passive aggressive and hide behind jokes. Bonus will be that even dudes and dudettes with asperger will know what hostility is all about.

Sarcasm turns factual debate about performance into personal attack - and people have full right to respond in kind.

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#180
post #87
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are many things which seem like good, elegant ideas, which don't work out well in practice. Do you have any good examples of this in programming? I'm starting to see a lot of the great parts of languages like Haskell, Erlang, Clojure, and other FP languages starting to flow upwards into more popular languages or in new more accessible forms (Elixir, Swift, Kotlin, Rust). It's possible that many of the good, e…

Java (1.0) had checked exceptions, if you threw something you had to say what it was in your interface. It Seemed like a good, elegant idea: if I use your API I know exactly what exceptions I need to watch for. It works well in trivial programs, but in anything larger it fails because adding a new exception to something core requires thousands of modifications to the API specification for an exception that I will cat…

Huh? Checked exceptions are great tools for API and are still in use - especially in large systems. They fail within small modules, because they are less practicall in that context.
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