Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home • Hacker News Board

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#281

Post by rgbrenner » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 7:36 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #264

rgbrenner wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im in the 'wait and see' camp.. but you can say a program is voluntary, while in truth it's required to keep your job. Just label all the people who refuse as not being team players. Dock them on their performance reviews for it. "Johnny over there wouldn't take a short detour on his way home, so we had to send someone out to deliver a package. If he's not willing to help out, maybe he should go work some place else.…

Do you have any evidence at all that this will be the case here?

I was speaking generally... but I think its going to be pretty difficult to avoid in an organization like Walmart, with its low-margin and strong emphasis on efficiency and controlling costs, to look at a sheet that says an employee is 2 minutes from a delivery point, but instead we had to send a truck 30 minutes out to deliver a package... it's going to be hard for that manager not to take that as a willingness to help.

Once you have a sheet with times and delivery points for each employee.. it becomes a measure of the employees willingness to assist. If other employees are willing to drive 10 minutes, and you're not willing to drive 2 minutes, it raises the question of why.

And that question is definitely going to be asked if the alternative (30 minutes for regular delivery) results in an additional cost to the company.

But as I said, we'll have to wait and see.

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#282

Post by anigbrowl » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 7:38 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #152

imatworkyo wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so fast, what if Walmart lowers overall compensation in the future, what if Walmart's compensation is already overly low. Does that change your opinion on this extra incentive program?

What if they offered overtime to workers who wanted extra money, or offered promotions to people who work particularly hard? Would you have the same dim view of these as you do of this package delivery thing? If they were able to cut wages in the future, surely they'd do it regardless.

Serious question: would you like a job at Walmart? Do you feel attracted to the idea of working there?

I could imagine working at Trader Joe's. Downside, running a supermarket is a very tedious and unrewarding job. Upside, you don't have to take your work home with you, I like their products and business model, and the firm treats its employees really well, in terms of both pay and conditions. People I've met socially who work there love their jobs, and it's a big reason I choose to shop there. On the other hand, I would have to be truly desperate to ever consider taking a job at Walmart.

So yeah, everything you say is true in theory, but would you honestly want to work for Walmart in practice?

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#283

Post by mtberatwork » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 7:39 PM UTC

phamilton wrote: post #189

alistairSH wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless I missed it, that report doesn't indicate the total hours worked, only rates at which doctors perform work outside their primary clinical job. There is also a massive difference between a doctor taking a side job because they enjoy it and a WalMart associate taking a delivery job because they have no choice.

> 35% of internists reported earning income from sources other than their primary practice > There is also a massive difference between a doctor taking a side job because they enjoy it and a WalMart associate taking a delivery job because they have no choice. I suggest you become more familiar with what medical interns get paid and their lifestyle. They are certainly moonlighting to pay the bills.

Internist as in "internal medicine", not as in "unpaid intern".

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#284

Post by alistairSH » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 7:40 PM UTC

phamilton wrote: post #189

alistairSH wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless I missed it, that report doesn't indicate the total hours worked, only rates at which doctors perform work outside their primary clinical job. There is also a massive difference between a doctor taking a side job because they enjoy it and a WalMart associate taking a delivery job because they have no choice.

> 35% of internists reported earning income from sources other than their primary practice > There is also a massive difference between a doctor taking a side job because they enjoy it and a WalMart associate taking a delivery job because they have no choice. I suggest you become more familiar with what medical interns get paid and their lifestyle. They are certainly moonlighting to pay the bills.

I doubt interns are moonlighting anywhere, as they don't have the accreditation to do so.

Perhaps you mean residents? The article discusses their options and does mention they might look for the extra income to pay down loans.

Regardless, the average salary for a family physician in the US somewhere around $175,000. Most specialists earn more. Yes, they can make poor financial choices and end up needing extra income, but at those income levels, I have to assume most of them are doing it for "fun".

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#285

Post by rectang » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 7:41 PM UTC

gozur88 wrote: post #265

rectang wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per the TechCrunch article, workers need to submit proof-of-insurance to participate. The wear-and-tear is going on employee vehicles rather than company vehicles, the additional distance they travel will increase their personal insurance rates, and as with rideshare they will need to pay additional riders on their policies. (If they don't have the riders their policies will be canceled as soon as they make a claim!)…

>These additional costs make the deal worse for employees and better for Walmart in ways which are hard for the workers to understand. That's pretty patronizing. I wouldn't assume people are stupid just because they work for Walmart. This could be a great deal for people who need extra money. If I'm driving down a street anyway, it's not much of an imposition to drop off a package and not much wear and tear on the ca…

> I wouldn't assume people are stupid just because they work for Walmart.

The difference between the two parties is information asymmetry, not intelligence.

Walmart is organized and concentrated and can bring to bear entire departments of lawyers and analysts. It gets to repeat the transaction N times and amortize its costs across all the transactions.

The individual workers do not have such resources and are not unified. Each of them is at a severe disadvantage in the negotiation.

The result is an inefficient labor market.

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#286

Post by anigbrowl » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 7:41 PM UTC

xienze wrote: post #62

dragonwriter wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Environmentally friendly too as the journey is being made anyway. It's a financial incentive for employees not to use transit but instead personal autos to and from work in order to be available for such deliveries, so it's actually environmentally hostile.

Wal-Marts are typically in areas where public transit isn't appealing (or even exists in the first place) if you have the ability to drive a car.

Tough titty for the employees who do rely on transit. No extra $ for them.

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#287

Post by mtberatwork » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 7:42 PM UTC

Houshalter wrote: post #197

mtberatwork wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walmart has acquiesced to increases in minimum wages only under protest from their workers and even then, the increases were pitiful. [1] [1] http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/03/walmart-can-afford-15-minimum...

Walmart raising it's own wages voluntarily is different than supporting a law that forces all companies to raise wages.

Walmart raising its own wages under protest is different than Walmart raising them voluntarily.

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#288

Post by bjl » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 7:44 PM UTC

api wrote: post #267

bjl wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, businesses don't like unions because they decrease their power over employees. That's not a good argument against them, however. If anything, I'd say its a good argument for them.

I've often heard that the biggest problem with unions isn't higher salary and benefit demands but inflexibility. Unions often insist on things like work rules (who gets to do what) and are resistant to automation or other forms of efficiency improvement. They basically end up mandating that things never change, eventually killing the host. From what I know of union work rules I can't even imaging trying to run any fo…

Union rules change all the time. Management just isn't usually willing to offer sufficient incentive during negotiations, since that would eat in to their profits.

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#289

Post by alistairSH » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 7:45 PM UTC

mtberatwork wrote: post #283

phamilton wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 35% of internists reported earning income from sources other than their primary practice > There is also a massive difference between a doctor taking a side job because they enjoy it and a WalMart associate taking a delivery job because they have no choice. I suggest you become more familiar with what medical interns get paid and their lifestyle. They are certainly moonlighting to pay the bills.

Internist as in "internal medicine", not as in "unpaid intern".

In the US, we have medical interns. They have completed their classroom studies, but not yet started residencies. They typically work as poorly paid interns for 18 months(?), doing quick rotations through the various specialties, before moving on to their residencies.

They are paid poorly. I think the base rate is about $35k/year. But, at this point, they are still effectively students. I believe the MD is granted upon completion of the internship (or maybe they have the MD, but not the license to practice, I can never remember).

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#290

Post by xienze » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 7:45 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #286

xienze wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wal-Marts are typically in areas where public transit isn't appealing (or even exists in the first place) if you have the ability to drive a car.

Tough titty for the employees who do rely on transit. No extra $ for them.

Well to hear it from HN readers, they're the lucky ones: they won't be exploited like their car-driving brethren.