Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home • Hacker News Board

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#151

Post by greglindahl » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 5:51 PM UTC

voidlogic wrote: post #119

leggomylibro wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh. I think that this sort of attitude (which was my initial reaction too) is a big part of what's wrong with our current economy. If you take the concept at face value, this is Walmart offering to let their employees make some extra money in exchange for a bit of extra work, once they've clocked out. What a nice company. But realistically, this is Walmart shunting the costs of delivery onto their employees. Instead…

>Instead of paying their employees a living wage Are you operating on old assumptions? The average hourly wage is $13.38 for full-time workers and $10.58 per hour for part-timers [1]. While that might not get you far in the bay area (which doesn't have many Walmarts FWIW), its a pretty good wage for unskilled labor in much of the interior country (which is prime Walmart territory)... 1: http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/2…

The Bay Area doesn't have Walmarts? Mountain View, Santa Clara, 4 in San Jose, Milpitas, Fremont, and that's just in the South Bay.

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#152

Post by mikeash » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 5:51 PM UTC

imatworkyo wrote: post #127

mikeash wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, huge difference between "deliver this on your way home or your fired" and "if you want some extra money, deliver this on your way home." Not much difference between this and, say, LaserShip, aside from it being a small part of the overall job.

Not so fast, what if Walmart lowers overall compensation in the future, what if Walmart's compensation is already overly low. Does that change your opinion on this extra incentive program?

What if they offered overtime to workers who wanted extra money, or offered promotions to people who work particularly hard? Would you have the same dim view of these as you do of this package delivery thing?

If they were able to cut wages in the future, surely they'd do it regardless.

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#153

Post by xienze » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 5:53 PM UTC

timthelion wrote: post #130

dominotw wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>forcing the government to pay the rest of a living wage. What difference does it make where the money is coming from? If we force Walmart to pay more, low-income ppl who shop will have to pay higher prices as opposed to now where all the taxpayers are footing the bill.

utter nonsense. Walmart makes 131 BILLION dollars a year in pure profit [1]. Obviuosly, forcing walmart to pay their employees more could lead to them making less profit and the poor being better off. EDIT: Basically there is no correlation between walmart's costs and how much the consumer pays. [1] http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Wal-Mart_(WMT)/Data/Gross_Pro...

The page you linked doesn't tell the whole story:

http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/wmt/financials

The ~100+ billion number is revenue - cost of goods. Actual profit after _all_ expenses is around ~13 billion or so. Big number? Yes, but only around 3-4% profit margin. And it's been declining.

Walmart has 2.3 million employees. $13 billion doesn't make for huge pay increases when you've got that many people to cover.

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#154

Post by Alupis » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 5:55 PM UTC

Chaebixi wrote: post #138

Alupis wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I could imagine an after-shift delivery taking up to an hour to complete. The article says the app finds possible deliveries that are on the employee's route home, so no extra out of the way driving is to be done... only a 30 second stop to get out and carry the package up to the front door. Seems very efficient to me. > I can also imagine a manager changing everyones' schedules around the deliveries. That could se…

> The article says the app finds possible deliveries that are on the employee's route home, so no extra out of the way driving is to be done... only a 30 second stop to get out and carry the package up to the front door. Seems very efficient to me. Dude, you're engaging in fantasy. Walmart is going to want to use this for more people than just those who live on busy commuter roads that happen to be used by a Walmart…

> is probably going to mean a detour below some limit that Walmart decides

Did you miss the part where this is a voluntary program? If the employee doesn't like the route, they don't have to take it.

> Dude, you're engaging in fantasy

I suppose it's fantasy simply because you hate Walmart (I presume). If this was, say, Amazon... I wager most would take a different opinion. "Look at how ingenuitive Amazon is! They'll deliver packages even faster and cheaper, and pay employees more while they're at it!"

You have no idea what the compensation is, but immediately assume it's big bad Walmart beating up on poor employees. Many just immediately assume this is some new devilish ploy to exploit workers... that's absurd, especially given how few facts we have about this program so far.

The facts, so far, state this is a 100% volunteer program... will only suggest package deliveries along the employees current (and specified by the employee) route home... and the employee will be compensated for that delivery above their normal wage... and Walmart will pass the savings to the customer, and offer faster delivery.

How is this not a win based on what we know so far? It's pure conjecture and bias that leads to the default assumption this is some absurdly evil, exploitative scheme...

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#155

Post by mikeash » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 5:55 PM UTC

pyre wrote: post #148

mikeash wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true for literally every aspect of every job, though, so it seems like a pointless thing to say unless there's some indication they're actually abusing this.

I'm just stating that the real question about how good this will be or not will be what happens in practice. If not enough employees are volunteering for this, then entire program could end in failure. Will there be pressure to make this work from upper management? The opt-in nature of this from existing employees is what makes this suspect. The question is will Walmart use their current employment relationship with…

This again seems pointless to say. Of course it'll depend on how it works out in practice. That's true of every action by every company. So why are so many people complaining about this?

Would you be happier if they just forced their employees to do it? Most job descriptions include a phrase like "and any other duties as required" and as long as they paid the employees and followed the relevant regulations it would be perfectly legal to do this.

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#156

Post by SilasX » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 5:55 PM UTC

rectang wrote: post #132

Glyptodon wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume Walmart's going to have to carry car insurance for deliveries. It doesn't seem like there's any reasonable way they'd be able to "contractor loophole" it.

Per the TechCrunch article, workers need to submit proof-of-insurance to participate. The wear-and-tear is going on employee vehicles rather than company vehicles, the additional distance they travel will increase their personal insurance rates, and as with rideshare they will need to pay additional riders on their policies. (If they don't have the riders their policies will be canceled as soon as they make a claim!)…

>Per the TechCrunch article, workers need to submit proof-of-insurance to participate.

I assume that's because of "we only want people on this who are insurable drivers in good standing to begin with" and not because of "we expect your personal policy to cover this".

>These additional costs make the deal worse for employees and better for Walmart in ways which are hard for the workers to understand. But I guarantee you that Walmart has studied it to death and knows exactly what advantage it brings them!

Walmart isn't Uber. I suspect they're much more cautious about making sure the relevant risks have the appropriate insurance. I also suspect they'll pay for mileage, but will probably try to get away with some "estimated increase in commute" rather than paying for the full distance to delivery.

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#157

Post by menacingly » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 5:55 PM UTC

TACIXAT wrote: post #66

I think my biggest complaint is that someone making minimum wager or near minimum wage will value money above their time, so many will take this opportunity. Most will take up any reasonable opportunity to earn a few extra dollars. However, this takes away from time that could be spent with family or used to better their skills. The working poor are in a tough position and this program takes advantage of that.

I think there are valid arguments against this plan, but in general I don't like the idea that we've got to protect poor adults from their own decisions. Like a lot of ideas to protect the poor from the elites, it's elitist itself

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#158

Post by smileysteve » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 5:57 PM UTC

throwanem wrote: post #122

downrightmike wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you already zorked this early on a Friday? Then why are so many of walmart's employees on social benefits? https://www.thenation.com/article/walmart-wages-are-the-main...

Sarcasm, I'm guessing.

If it is, then that needs to be clarified; because for its industry and the "local" general stores it is replacing, Walmart pays more per hour.

For the Uber/Ubereats and other gig economy estimates, $11/hr is well above the industry take home.

Walmart is in progress of raising it's minimum wage to $11/hr, 22% more than federal $7.25 minimum wage. The Times covered this in the past https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/20/business/walmart-raising-...

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#159

Post by wutbrodo » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 5:57 PM UTC

penpapersw wrote: post #68

leggomylibro wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh. I think that this sort of attitude (which was my initial reaction too) is a big part of what's wrong with our current economy. If you take the concept at face value, this is Walmart offering to let their employees make some extra money in exchange for a bit of extra work, once they've clocked out. What a nice company. But realistically, this is Walmart shunting the costs of delivery onto their employees. Instead…

Most of our local friends work at Walmart, because there's honestly not much other choice for them. Our economy is so broken that the only people who win are people who know how to abuse the system, and who have designed the system to be easier to abuse and harder to survive by honest hard work. I read once that Walmart uses their resources to take advantage of current (broken) laws to allow them to keep paying penni…

> I read once that Walmart uses their resources to take advantage of current (broken) laws to allow them to keep paying pennies for hard work, and forcing the government to pay the rest of a living wage.

I have never understood this complaint. I'm 100% onboard with the idea that, in a society as affluent as ours, no one should be going hungry, unhoused, etc. But how is that not our collective responsibility, as opposed to the responsibility of an entity who happens to be buying their labor?

The idea that Walmart is "forcing" the government to take care of poorer citizens is frankly idiotic: if you accept that there is a responsibility to take care of the poor (as I do), that responsibility is on all of us, and the government is the canonical expression of our collective will and action. Trying to shirk this responsibility by desperately shoe-horning it into the labor market is just a messy hack (the same is true of the idea that employers should be the de facto providers of health insurance, as opposed to the gov't). I can't help but think that people who think that this is somehow the ethical approach have a status-quo bias as a poor substitute for actual moral reasoning.

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#160

Post by twoquestions » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 5:57 PM UTC

justforFranz wrote: post #44

leggomylibro wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh. I think that this sort of attitude (which was my initial reaction too) is a big part of what's wrong with our current economy. If you take the concept at face value, this is Walmart offering to let their employees make some extra money in exchange for a bit of extra work, once they've clocked out. What a nice company. But realistically, this is Walmart shunting the costs of delivery onto their employees. Instead…

It blows my mind how libertarian/naive techy types are. But I also suspect there's some right-wing nutjob organization spamming hacker news comments with pro-business community idiocy.

Libertarian isn't necessarily right-wing, even though it generally is in the US.

When you get some time, search for and skim though "The Conquest of Bread" to see a hard Leftist complain about taxes. Be warned, the author is kind of a nutbar.