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Hidden Away for 28 Years, Tiananmen Protest Pictures See Light of Day

nytimes.com

131–135 of 135 posts

Re: Hidden Away for 28 Years, Tiananmen Protest Pictures See Light of Day

#131

An inspiring collection of photos, but I'd bet it attracts little interest outside a few select, irrelevant circles. One of the most heartbreaking thing about the massacre is not just that the mass murderers who ordered it were never held responsible but that today it barely even tarnishes their reputations, while the memory of their victims has been thoroughly suppressed.

I'm going to take a kind of despicable position. We don't know what would have happened had the protests been allowed to continue. China is a vast country with mostly poor, uneducated people -- especially so in 1989. Look at what happened in Syria. Look at the Arab spring. Is it just to kill hundreds, to prevent the slaughter of hundreds of thousands? If the answer is no, never, I don't see how we can have states at…

> Is it just to kill hundreds, to prevent the slaughter of hundreds of thousands?

> If the answer is no, never, I don't see how we can have states at all.

You're talking about an innocent 100 people right? To save an innocent 1000. Like some sort of hostage situation?

I say no, it's not just. It's wrong to kill except in self defense.

So how does that imply we can't have a state? Can't the state use the same principle? Kill only in self defense?

Re: Hidden Away for 28 Years, Tiananmen Protest Pictures See Light of Day

#132

Glad to see many reasonable comments here. I have a vague memory of CCTV(official media, not your backyard CCTV) footage that depicting students and other people as mobs and killing soliders and burning the dead soldiers body. Over the years, I got more and more piece of information about what happened at the time. clearly Chinese government is still trying to cover up what they did, and many exiles is still making u…

> they knew what happened was shameful

Do they? Are pro-democrasy protests allowed today? Or would people be shot again?

Re: Hidden Away for 28 Years, Tiananmen Protest Pictures See Light of Day

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe downvotes should be reserved for comments that are not substantial, not comments you disagree with. I am disappointed to see this, but I am not surprised. It is hardly "legal" to take a different stand here on this particular issue.

Comments that suggest looking in alternate reality to justify violence aren't substantial. We can't know what happened to people in Dimension X, but we know that you aren't supposed to kill your citizens in our home dimension.

We are debating under which conditions it might be permissible to kill your own citizens. Reasonable people could have different answers to that question. "Never" is certainly one answer, and a principled one, but also one that is not implemented by any existing state that I know of.

Re: Hidden Away for 28 Years, Tiananmen Protest Pictures See Light of Day

#134
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are much better previous pictures and video footage compared to this so not sure why you are so thankful, for starters watch on YouTube The Tankman

I think you're missing the point. It's a piece of history that has been buried. The tankman isn't the only thing that happened. The calm protest before the gunfire is rare to see and the more images of policemen joining the protest mean so, so much. For the younger people they can't just search "tank man" on youtube in china and find out what happened, because either A: they have no idea what tankman even is or B: th…

no, these images will be censored same as all the other images

and for people familiar with Beijing massacre, they know that many gov officials joined people

Re: Hidden Away for 28 Years, Tiananmen Protest Pictures See Light of Day

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comments that suggest looking in alternate reality to justify violence aren't substantial. We can't know what happened to people in Dimension X, but we know that you aren't supposed to kill your citizens in our home dimension.

We are debating under which conditions it might be permissible to kill your own citizens. Reasonable people could have different answers to that question. "Never" is certainly one answer, and a principled one, but also one that is not implemented by any existing state that I know of.

It's always a failure when you can't find better solution than killing your citizen.

Hence, let's stop discussing it as a success.

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