Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook is an attack on the open web

daringfireball.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 440 posts

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#281

Post by graphememes »

korzun wrote: post #256
steventhedev wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being downvoted because a large segment of HN is engineers who prefer sites like http://motherfuckingwebsite.com and http://evenbettermotherfucking.website Basically, what it comes down to is that if all 37 requests are done in parallel, then you're only loading the page as slowly as the slowest. Sadly, this is rarely the case. Most browsers will only make 6 concurrent requests from a server, which you can see…

> Basically, what it comes down to is that if all 37 requests are done in parallel, then you're only loading the page as slowly as the slowest Doesn't apply here. Facebook is using async and downgrades the experience for mobile clients. > Most browsers will only make 6 concurrent requests from a server, which you can see in Firefox via the about:config page and the network.http.max-persistent-connections-per-server.…

> Per host not per server

You are correct, but I will be a little more terse with words, per hostname (domain). There is also a max connections limit as well which is generally 10-17.

2014: http://sgdev-blog.blogspot.com/2014/01/maximum-concurrent-co...

Today: http://www.browserscope.org/?category=network&v=top

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#282

Post by makecheck »

camillomiller wrote: post #205
knieveltech wrote: post #89

Facebook is an attack on society itself. Ignorance of other people's stupidity, bigotry, and pettiness is a necessary lubricant for society to function.

Totally agree. Especially if the expression of such ignorance comes with a sense of pride and entitlement. It's easy to get entitled and proud, because nobody in real life would give you 200 nods to your racist musings while in line at Walmart. But 200 people press a stupid like button, and suddenly you feel like your idiotic and uneducated opinion has a great meaning. This is straightforward dangerous for representa…

The interesting thing to me is how online numbers are nowhere near statistically significant and yet they "matter" to people. There are billions of people, thousands just in your neighborhood (probably) and yet most people interact with a few dozen network links and the few dozen comment posts they are likely to read. That skew is gigantic, and it should terrify people that they are not relying on more professionally-edited sources.

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#283

Post by inostia »

Tossrock wrote: post #19

I deactivated my Facebook account several months ago, and it's been about 90% great, 10% frustrating. It's great for all the obvious reasons (less timesuck, less compulsion to endlessly scroll your life away, no notification interruptions). The frustrations are real, though. Primarily it's around events and photos. There are some communities I participate in that regularly organize events through Facebook, and now I…

I'm a part of the local Bay Area music scene and Facebook events has basically become the standard for posting about shows. Without a Facebook I just don't hear about them.

I'm considering making a dummy account with a few friends just for the purpose of finding out about events.

Side note, does anyone know of a service that allows you to track FB events without having to be in the Facebook app? Not sure if there's an API for that.

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#284

Post by maksimum »

madeofpalk wrote: post #276
Tossrock wrote: post #19

I deactivated my Facebook account several months ago, and it's been about 90% great, 10% frustrating. It's great for all the obvious reasons (less timesuck, less compulsion to endlessly scroll your life away, no notification interruptions). The frustrations are real, though. Primarily it's around events and photos. There are some communities I participate in that regularly organize events through Facebook, and now I…

> It's great for all the obvious reasons (less timesuck, less compulsion to endlessly scroll your life away, no notification interruptions). You're not able to exercise self control? I have Facebook, but I never use it apart from the events and Messenger for chatting with certain friends.

> You're not able to exercise self control?

Ability to exercise self-control most likely varies significantly among people. It's not like the ability to breath. Also Facebook is explicitly designed to "engage" people, meaning that a piece of information shared on Facebook is going to engage a larger fraction of people than that same piece of information in ... a newspaper (for example). Engagement/attention hacking is a different issue than the walled-garden issue for the most part though.

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#285

Post by sirfz »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #258
sirfz wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never installed Messenger mainly because I was satisfied with using Facebook app's messaging feature. When it was disabled in the app, I moved to using Facebook in the browser (uninstalled the app). They later removed messaging support in the browser as well so now I request "Desktop mode" when I want to read/write a message. What started as "I don't want to install another app I don't need" became "I will uninstal…

Protip: try mbasic.facebook.com for messaging, or the "Toffeed" app on Android which is just a thin wrapper around this.

That's very helpful, thanks!

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#286

Post by StavrosK »

abritinthebay wrote: post #270
StavrosK wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm kind of surprised to see these posts describing how it's possible to get off Facebook. For me, it doesn't really make much of a difference whether I'm on or off. I barely ever log in, barely ever use it, and things don't really spread through Facebook. However, that just may be that I don't live in the US, and it just might be more pervasive there.

It's... it's not that Facebook itself is the issue. It's the resulting network effects and how you interact with people while still on it. For example: not being on Facebook means you actually have to keep in touch with people to know what they are doing . That sounds like a "duh" moment, but it's also key to how FB is replacing real social interaction with "social interaction". The knock on effects of this are deep,…

I get that it's the network effects, but I guess I don't understand how your relationships are structured. I have a core group of friends with whom I talk every day on IM or the phone or face to face, then a larger group with whom I talk a few times a week, and then the rest are acquaintances I talk to rarely.

If anything happens in any of the first two groups, I hear about it because I'm directly invited. There aren't things that I hear about from Facebook, unless it's some club organizing an event or something similar.

How do you* interact with people, generally? Do you talk to them less but see what they post on Facebook?

* By "you" I mostly mean "people who use Facebook for socialization".

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#287

Post by peterwwillis »

You've got to be kidding me.

Google has taken over search, web browsing, advertising, and has the largest mobile platform. They hold your email, maps, search history, personal docs, office suite, and calendar. They authenticate you to services all over the web. All of your actually important data (you really can live without pictures, unless you are a photographer or model) resides with them. They have created several new protocols that the web uses regularly, and influences new standards. They influence how most web content is created. They have leverage over most of the companies doing business on the web. They handle domains, cloud computing, business services, and a range of other products I don't remember. And they control how you use the web with their browsers and OSes.

There is no other company that single-handedly controls so many aspects of the web. Facebook is just a social platform; Google is everything else.

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#288

Post by thinkling »

criddell wrote: post #131
Jach wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure Facebook will still track you (this applies even if you don't have a Facebook account). You'd need to block their domain and any ad domains that may be related. (Edit: Also mentioned here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14463127 )

I guess I should have clarified that deleting the cookie and staying signed out is about the same as not having a Facebook account. Even if you block them 100% online, as soon as you use a credit card or loyalty card, you are letting them track you again.

Deleting cookies isn't enough anymore to prevent tracking. Facebook knows your home IP address, your browser user-agent, and likely your browser finger print. Should they care to, they don't need a cookie to connect you with data they already have about you.

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#289

Post by intopieces »

patrickaljord wrote: post #96
nnfy wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem with an idle Facebook account is at least twofold: my activity is still being tracked against my will, and out of principle I refuse to support an organization which so blatantly disregards personal space.

> I refuse to support an organization which so blatantly disregards personal space. I suppose you have no cell phone and live in a place with no government then, because Facebook can't hold a candle to telcos and governments when it comes to disregarding your personal space.

People have to pick their battles based on their resources and level of concern. While the tracking that you bring up is important to keep in mind, its existence does not justify that kind of nefarious privacy invasion that Facebook operates as part of its business plan.

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#290

Post by maksimum »

xadhominemx wrote: post #263
gthtjtkt wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook was great in the early years. No ads, no political spam, no viral garbage, no pictures of what your friend ate for dinner, no psychologically manipulative algorithms. Just people talking to their friends and posting pictures of themselves hanging out. If someone made a new social network like that, I'd sign up today.

you know you can sort your newsfeed to "most recent" right? And mute your obnoxious friends from appearing in your newsfeed. You can also hide posts from particular websites from appearing on your newsfeed. In a short period of time, that would solve 90% of your problems.

> you know you can sort your newsfeed to "most recent" right?

Just looked through settings and wasn't able to find anything for order of posts in news feed.

> And mute your obnoxious friends from appearing in your newsfeed.

Yep this is pretty easy to do.

> You can also hide posts from particular websites from appearing on your newsfeed.

This isn't helpful since you cannot block the entire class of "transitive" posts. Eg a Honda ad because a friend of mine liked a Honda page. Sure I can block Honda. But Toyota or Volkswagen can still show up until I block them individually...

Post reply on HN