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Facebook is an attack on the open web

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Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#191

Post by s73ver »

b0rsuk wrote: post #182

There's a string of submissions critical of Facebook on HN recently. I agree and approve. But one thing interests me: doesn't Facebook have something like that, but in reverse ? I mean updates along the lines "We need more Facebook", "Open internet is for nerds", "Why more websites need to migrate to Facebook"... ? Unless you have a Facebook account, you don't know what's going on on the other side of the barricade.…

I'd be willing to offer a different take: You life in a smaller-ish job market. I'd be willing to bet you have fewer of the hip, "bleeding edge" startups, and places that hop on the newest technologies right away. I'm guessing most of the companies are more technologically conservative. I'm not saying that as a bad thing, by any means. More that, they would rather work with proven technologies where the problems are known. That way, they can concentrate on whatever it is they want to do, rather than on the bugs of the alpha build of the flavor of the month.

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#192

Post by Ductapemaster »

MachinShinn- wrote: post #74

I'm baffled by some of the comments here... Is it so difficult for you guys to just have a facebook account that you don't check in on? You can still sign into random sites that require it that way, arrange meetups, etc but without 'scrolling your life away' I expect people like me who spend most of their day on the computer to have at least as much digital self discipline as I have, but perhaps that's a poor assumpt…

I deactivated my Facebook mostly because I have a hard time controlling myself. It's not the only thing I find difficult to control in the digital realm (I'm still a regular on Reddit and here), but I've found I intellectually get a lot more out of using Reddit and HN over Facebook. Maybe its confirmation bias, but I come from a family with addictive tendencies and even though I don't have a problem with substances, I definitely see it show up in my life with digital products.

I also found that spending more time on Facebook made me focus on the wrong things in life. I spent a lot of time thinking about what photos I wanted to post to garner interest (in reality few look or care about them). I spent a lot of time checking in on people that I haven't talked to in years, which satisfies my interest without actually ever communicating with them. It just became sort of depressing after a while. It's low effort to become friends with someone on Facebook, and I don't think its healthy to be constantly reminded of these connections you've made in life through various events and never actively continue in real life. You just spend a lot of time thinking about the past or what could have been. I was expending so much energy and getting back nothing but fleeting dopamine hits.

I truly believe I'm better off without it, despite the difficulty coordinating events with people and being invited to things. I communicate more with people in real life now. I find I am more motivated to text or call people to check in. I also use other communication services more because I'm not satisfying my social needs through passive consumption anymore.

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#193

Post by b0rsuk »

MachinShinn- wrote: post #74

I'm baffled by some of the comments here... Is it so difficult for you guys to just have a facebook account that you don't check in on? You can still sign into random sites that require it that way, arrange meetups, etc but without 'scrolling your life away' I expect people like me who spend most of their day on the computer to have at least as much digital self discipline as I have, but perhaps that's a poor assumpt…

So do Facebook a favor and create your own shadow profile for them ? What if you were against shadow profiles in the first place ?

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#194

Post by eridius »

tkubacki wrote: post #176

Whenever I see Gruber talking about openess and standards I smell hipocrysy - same way we can say iOS ecosystem is an attack on open computing (walled garden).

iOS apps being a walled garden doesn't really have anything to do with the open web. Apple has long embraced the open web, so there's nothing hypocritical about this.

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#196

Post by cowsandmilk »

tobyjsullivan wrote: post #31
Tossrock wrote: post #19

I deactivated my Facebook account several months ago, and it's been about 90% great, 10% frustrating. It's great for all the obvious reasons (less timesuck, less compulsion to endlessly scroll your life away, no notification interruptions). The frustrations are real, though. Primarily it's around events and photos. There are some communities I participate in that regularly organize events through Facebook, and now I…

I've enjoyed roughly the same experience but without the downsides. As far as events go, the neckbeard in me hasn't actually minded. I still get invited to "high quality" events (things my real-life friends are going to) and haven't really missed the lower quality events. Photos I just conveniently had solved by having all my photos on Google Photos anyways (I stopped trusting offline storage long ago). I think my Fa…

> I still get invited to "high quality" events (things my real-life friends are going to) and haven't really missed the lower quality events.

Just to run a counterpoint to this, there are Facebook groups that have opened up whole new social circles for me and provide opportunities. I'm into whitewater kayaking and the "Where's the Whitewater at?" group has people planning informal trips at a few hours notice when someone drives by and notices a river is runnable. You go out and paddle with people you haven't met before, make new friends who share your interests, etc.

Also, it is great for learning about new hazards in a river, i.e. fallen trees, that make a certain trip either possible or much more dangerous.

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#197

Post by camillomiller »

tkubacki wrote: post #176

Whenever I see Gruber talking about openess and standards I smell hipocrysy - same way we can say iOS ecosystem is an attack on open computing (walled garden).

I agree that Gruber is leaning a lot towards Cupertino, but when it comes to open Web standards he's always been praising Google's approaches and had critics for Apple's Safari and WebKit approach.

Let's not start pointing fingers about being hypocritical, tho, otherwise I would really hear for example how exactly is Google stance on openness not hypocritical. (I know you didn't name Google directly, but it's the easiest example)

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#198

Post by Raphmedia »

gthtjtkt wrote: post #50
Tossrock wrote: post #19

I deactivated my Facebook account several months ago, and it's been about 90% great, 10% frustrating. It's great for all the obvious reasons (less timesuck, less compulsion to endlessly scroll your life away, no notification interruptions). The frustrations are real, though. Primarily it's around events and photos. There are some communities I participate in that regularly organize events through Facebook, and now I…

Facebook was great in the early years. No ads, no political spam, no viral garbage, no pictures of what your friend ate for dinner, no psychologically manipulative algorithms. Just people talking to their friends and posting pictures of themselves hanging out. If someone made a new social network like that, I'd sign up today.

> If someone made a new social network like that, I'd sign up today.

Make your own.

Here's what I did for my local network of friends (who also all hate Facebook). Install Wordpress, add the free Buddypress plugin, purchase $50 BuddyPress theme. Throw on a server.

There you go, your own private social network in under a week.

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#199

Post by s73ver »

gthtjtkt wrote: post #91
aeorgnoieang wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excluding the "ads", how would you prevent users from posting "political spam", "viral garbage", and "pictures of what your friend ate for dinner"?

Easy: Stop littering the feed with pictures, videos and articles. Exclude them altogether or show them very rarely. You can also easily identify "viral" content that doesn't belong to the user and remove it. Eventually they'll learn not to waste their time posting those things because they'll get no responses. And if someone posts an article, leave it as a plain old text link instead of creating a massive preview of…

But, there's a reason people post those things. Excluding the viral repost content for a second, people post their pictures and videos of what they're doing because they want to share it with people and have others see it.

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#200

Post by usegolang »

Tossrock wrote: post #19

I deactivated my Facebook account several months ago, and it's been about 90% great, 10% frustrating. It's great for all the obvious reasons (less timesuck, less compulsion to endlessly scroll your life away, no notification interruptions). The frustrations are real, though. Primarily it's around events and photos. There are some communities I participate in that regularly organize events through Facebook, and now I…

What you miss are pretty much the only things I do on FB anymore. I'm just not sure why you had to deactivate to make that happen. I guess it has never sucked me in and wasted my day because I just don't find browsing FB very interesting.
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