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Tesla fires female engineer who alleged sexual harassment

theguardian.com

61–70 of 118 posts

Re: Tesla fires female engineer who alleged sexual harassment

#61
post #50
post #3

Moral of the story: If you sue your employer in an at-will state, you're very likely to be fired. Now, the only winners will be the lawyers.

That is simply not true (in California). If the underlying lawsuit is based on employment Discrimination or Harassment under the California Fair Employment and Housing Act, firing the employee because they filed the lawsuit itself subjects the company to liability. It's called a "Tameny Claim" -- a "Discharge in Violation of Public Policy." [1] Of course, proving that the reason for the firing was Retaliation isn't e…

You'd have to prove that she was let go in direct relation to reporting the harassment, and given the at-will employment clause most assuredly included in her employment contract, they (Tesla) wouldn't have to give a reason for letting her go.

That's an uphill battle, and one that only the lawyers and court can really decide.

Re: Tesla fires female engineer who alleged sexual harassment

#62

>At the time, Vandermeyden said she was hopeful her lawsuit and public comments would not end her career at the company. How could she honestly expect to keep her job with an employer she is sueing and smearing in the media? Why would she even want to continue working there?

Her employer is a company. Companies don't have the emotions people have. In large organisations, the effect of employee lawsuits may even be beneficial, because it allows for a mechanism to escalate serious issues before they become even worse, while the high barriers in terms of cost, emotional burden etc. serve to discourage frivolous complaints.

> Companies don't have the emotions people have.

You forget, companies solely consist of people and are solely owned by people. It's a legal vehicle.

People, of which companies consist, have feelings and emotions.

Re: Tesla fires female engineer who alleged sexual harassment

#63
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If every woman who was sexually harrassed just quit, the workplace environment for women would still be like the '50s. Individuals have to make a stand for better treatment for all.

I'm not in the US but I sincerely doubt that harassment is that common.

If 1% of guys are scumbags, and 5 days a year they really act like it, and you play that out for 10 years.. most women could be harrassed at some point or other even though 99% of guys are innocent.

Re: Tesla fires female engineer who alleged sexual harassment

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I give you Wikipedia: > in which an employee can be dismissed by an employer for any reason [...], and without warning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment

Read a little further down the page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment#Statutory_e...

Which means that Tesla would have to indicated that the termination was in retaliation to the reporting of the harassment. It doesn't sound (to my non-lawyer ears) like it did.

But that's now between the lawyers and the courts.

Re: Tesla fires female engineer who alleged sexual harassment

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like another case of someone bringing their political ideology to the job rather a willingness to do great work.

"Not being sexually harassed" is not a political ideology, it's a fundamental human right.

In the event of sexual harassment, you may be right. Certainly, female sexual rights have been a moral point of interest for a century or so, and it's not one that shared by all cultures today. And it was shared by almost none in pre-industrial societies. So, I'm not sure there's the level of proof that it's a "fundamental human right" in the way that liberty has been proven in political philosophy.

But praveenbeatle is referring to the idealistic drive to be a part of a societal change by making up events to exploit for political gain.

Re: Tesla fires female engineer who alleged sexual harassment

#66
post #34

> Tesla added that Vandermeyden had been granted numerous positions “over other more qualified candidates” and was “given special treatment and opportunities for advancement that were unwarranted based on her qualifications”. It makes Tesla look even worse, acknowledging that the only reason that person got the job is that because she was a woman, a man wouldn't have gotten the same job for the same qualifications.

I think they may just be saying that she had been promoted at a rate much higher than people with similar qualifications, precisely because they were recognising her contribution. In other words, they are contesting her claim that she wasn't being promoted appropriately.

Re: Tesla fires female engineer who alleged sexual harassment

#67

Their head of HR just left last week. The replacement is from EA, a company who really knows how to handle their employees. https://www.buzzfeed.com/carolineodonovan/following-allegati...

Even though the article you referenced says "Entertainment Arts" she is actually from the "ea_spouse"'s EA (Electronic Arts) as per Tesla's own PR: https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-welcomes-gaby-toledano

Re: Tesla fires female engineer who alleged sexual harassment

#68
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is simply not true (in California). If the underlying lawsuit is based on employment Discrimination or Harassment under the California Fair Employment and Housing Act, firing the employee because they filed the lawsuit itself subjects the company to liability. It's called a "Tameny Claim" -- a "Discharge in Violation of Public Policy." [1] Of course, proving that the reason for the firing was Retaliation isn't e…

You'd have to prove that she was let go in direct relation to reporting the harassment, and given the at-will employment clause most assuredly included in her employment contract, they (Tesla) wouldn't have to give a reason for letting her go. That's an uphill battle, and one that only the lawyers and court can really decide.

That is also not true (except that it is an up-hill battle -- I agree with that). A "Tameny Claim" is an exception to at-will employment, and the rules around discrimination, harassment, retaliation, and discharges in violation of public policy are different. California follows the "McDonnell Douglas" burden shifting process at the summary judgment stage for identifying where the presumption is, and who has to show/prove what.[1][2]

Ultimately, at trial the burden of proof is on the employee, but the standard of proof is low -- more likely than not, which is basically 50.1%. If the employee survives summary judgment, their chances of winning (or settling favorably) are probably pretty good.

[1] See, e.g., https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?q=Diego+v.+Pilgrim+U...

[2] The burden shifting process is:

"When a plaintiff alleges retaliatory employment termination ... as a claim for wrongful employment termination in violation of public policy, and the defendant seeks summary judgment, California follows the burden shifting analysis of McDonnell Douglas Corp. v. Green (1973) 411 U.S. 792 [36 L.Ed.2d 668, 93 S.Ct. 1817] to determine whether there are triable issues of fact for resolution by a jury. [Citation.] In the first stage, the `plaintiff must show (1) he or she engaged in a "protected activity," (2) the employer subjected the employee to an adverse employment action, and (3) a causal link existed between the protected activity and the employer's action.' [Citation.] If the employee successfully establishes these elements and thereby shows a prima facie case exists, the burden shifts to the employer to provide evidence that there was a legitimate, nonretaliatory reason for the adverse employment action. [Citation.] If the employer produces evidence showing a legitimate reason for the adverse employment action, `the presumption of retaliation "`"drops out of the picture,"'"' [citation], and the burden shifts back to the employee to provide `substantial responsive evidence' that the employer's proffered reasons were untrue or pretextual."

Re: Tesla fires female engineer who alleged sexual harassment

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I guess the question at the end of the day is if her claims have merit. If she can prove the discrimination, her termination is illegal. If she's been unreasonable, and Tesla has indeed, as it claims, made every effort to meet her needs, I absolutely can see why they'd fire her.

Tesla isn't merely claiming they've met her needs, they're actually claiming that she's received privileged treatment because she's a woman: > Tesla added that Vandermeyden had been granted numerous positions “over other more qualified candidates” and was “given special treatment and opportunities for advancement that were unwarranted based on her qualifications”.

> Tesla isn't merely claiming they've met her needs, they're actually claiming that she's received privileged treatment because she's a woman:

If that's true, they are admitting to sexual discrimination and opening themselves up to further lawsuits.

Re: Tesla fires female engineer who alleged sexual harassment

#70

This sounds terrible for Tesla in many directions. Either she is right, in which case Tesla sounds very bad. Alternatively, Tesla is completely right (which I personally don't believe), in which case as they confess that : "Vandermeyden had been granted numerous positions “over other more qualified candidates” and was “given special treatment and opportunities for advancement that were unwarranted based on her qualif…

I'm pretty sure Tesla is referring to her position vs her qualifications here. A company won't usually hire people into senior positions if their qualifications aren't adequate. It's then a case of the employee being promoted up the ranks in line with their performance.

It sounds like Tesla is saying she was promoted, even over others with higher qualifications, precisely because of her contributions.

In jobs that I've had over the years, I've also corrected mistakes made by more senior colleagues and made suggestions that they have not made. But I had no expectation to suddenly be paid as much or more than them.

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