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The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

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Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#501

Post by jaclaz »

int_19h wrote: post #475
truxus wrote: post #150

Am also a design engineer, I specialize in water and wastewater works. My clients are all municipalities, with tight budget and politics are a factor. Engineering productivity has climbed thanks to computers, but construction productivity continues to decline. In my experience on small jobs this has a lot to do with safety and regulations. It takes a team of 2-3 to enter confined spaces (manholes) for momentary inspe…

And yet, they can do this in Europe, where all these things are also considered important (so far as I know; but I've yet to see evidence to the contrary). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btOE0rcKDC0

Well, technically that tunnel launch is nothing extraordinary, surely well done, but nothing more, have you seen/read the linked to article (Dutch)? http://www.gelderlander.nl/ede/deze-tunnel-onder-de-a12-is-e...

Google Translate: >This tunnel under the A12 is one year old, and closely sealed EDE - Just a year and a day, it's already waiting under the A12 at Ede: a large tunnel, intended for the Park Avenue, the route that must open in Ede East from the A12 to the N224. As it turns out, it will take another year for road construction.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#502

Post by TulliusCicero »

maxerickson wrote: post #320
deanCommie wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have a source for any of that? Sounds like a completely made-up justification after the fact. Surely someone would have raised the point that the soviet union could just launch it's missiles in the middle of the work day. Also, Moscow is tremendously sprawled out.

To me the simpler theory is that the US has been quite wealthy since World War 2 and has lots and lots of space. Which doesn't mean that building sprawling subdivisions is a great idea, but space is a pretty easy thing to sell.

Those things enable sprawl, but they don't force it.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#503

Post by CydeWeys »

int_19h wrote: post #448
CydeWeys wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got any credible sources on that? It sounds like one of those urban legends that people like to repeat. The Eisenhower interstate system was built in a post-nuclear world, and in a post-nuclear world it's hard to imagine there ever being a mainland invasion of the United States. The bombs would be flying before that, and there wouldn't be anything left worth invading (on any side in the conflict). Being able to u…

I don't know about the bridges specifically, but that the interstate system had an explicit national security purpose is not just well-documented, it's literally right there in the name of the law that created it: National Interstate and Defense Highways Act.

My issue with the bridge thing is that it's easy enough to blow up bridges, especially as you're retreating from the territory they're in, regardless of their location or construction. It could cost billions of extra construction dollars to unnecessarily site a bridge in anything but its obvious ideal location (e.g. the shortest possible span).

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#504

Post by CydeWeys »

rangibaby wrote: post #433
CydeWeys wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got any credible sources on that? It sounds like one of those urban legends that people like to repeat. The Eisenhower interstate system was built in a post-nuclear world, and in a post-nuclear world it's hard to imagine there ever being a mainland invasion of the United States. The bombs would be flying before that, and there wouldn't be anything left worth invading (on any side in the conflict). Being able to u…

The military purpose of the interstate is moving friendly troops around (logistics).

Now this is a lot more true, and the military value of having good transportation within the boundaries of your own land has been known since at least Roman times, and likely much farther back.

It doesn't explain the bridge blowing up thing, however.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#505

Post by dx034 »

int_19h wrote: post #473
noonespecial wrote: post #51

I thought about this when I visited the Hoover Dam. The audacity of the thing and sheer impossibility of doing anything remotely like it in today's America makes it seem like a relic from an ancient civilization. It felt like visiting the pyramids in Egypt.

I get the same feeling even for smaller scale projects. I was looking at the I-90 at Snoqualmie Pass from below - it's effectively a very long bridge over the area there - and wondering whether I will see such infrastructure projects in my lifetime. For the curious, here are some photos of that place: https://pemco.com/blog/Lists/Photos/denny_creek_viaduct_capt... http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/36708233.…

Maybe not in the US but certainly in other countries. HK currently demonstrates that with their bridge to Macau and France's Millau Viaduct is at least as impressive as the Snoqualmie Pass [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millau_Viaduct

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#506

Post by fps »

to3m wrote: post #439
gozur88 wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It turns out that Millennial behavior during the recession—living in the basement rather than driving to work, and biking and sharing rides elsewhere—did not reflect a preferred lifestyle so much as an accommodation to the longest recession and slowest recovery in modern U.S. history. >By year-end 2016 road travel had hit an all-time high, north of 3.2 trillion vehicle-miles. Gasoline demand has followed apace, also…

That's an interesting article. It didn't gel with my experience of people's motivations for buying cars in the UK, so I had a skim anyway, because what the fuck do I know about America (answer: I went there on holiday once), and ended up clicking on the link about how millenials prefer SUVs: http://fortune.com/2015/09/09/10-used-cars-millennials-buy/ and finding a list of the top 10 used cars that millenials buy. Now…

That list of cars isn't the list of most popular millennial cars, it's the list of cars that no one except young people will buy. You're right, the GT-R, R32, WRX, IS-F, and Magnum aren't a "normal person cars", they're mostly cheap high performance cars. The other half of the list is cheap, ugly SUVs. That list is a list of unpopular cars that for various reasons sells slightly better to younger people.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#507

Post by CydeWeys »

Decade wrote: post #497
CydeWeys wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious as to why you truly can't do it. Obviously not everyone can, but most individual cases likely can. It's more that you choose not to, which is still perfectly valid.

Can’t live in Manhattan? Because NIMBY housing policies prevent Manhattan from growing. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/19/upshot/forty-...

I don't disagree that zoning policies need reforming, but that just makes living here more expensive, not impossible.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#508

Post by kodablah »

serhei wrote: post #415
kodablah wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet Dallas is still home to the longest light rail system in the world. The trains are not an issue, it's how decentralized the people are. The value is simply not there to justify the project in most people's eyes (and won't benefit most people).

Longest? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DART_Light_Rail -> System Length 93 mi (150 km) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trams_in_Melbourne -> System Length 160 miles (250 kilometres) However, your point that the decentralization plays a difference is very valid. The Melbourne network is a dense grid which serves a much more compact area whereas the Dallas system consists of a small number of lines that stretch very far…

Tramways such as Melbourne's are a bit different in definition [0].

0 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_rail vs https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tram

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#510

Post by mason240 »

grillvogel wrote: post #352
mason240 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're free to live how you choose, but don't force others to live how you see fit.

well by choosing to drive yourself to work every day in a wasteful petroleum burning vehicle you are forcing the rest of us to live with your pollution

And that's why electric cars will the death of anti-car sentiment.
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