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The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

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Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#351

Post by phil21 »

Apreche wrote: post #2

It costs extra because CORRUPTION. They're skimming off the top at every level, and that's why they can't let anyone investigate.

Absolutely this. And not corruption (neccessarily) in the form of "you give me $100k into my bank account and I'll approve the deal" type of corruption.

Just simply incompetent (at best) people milking the projects for insane amounts of money while adding no value. Actually in many cases adding negative value.

Basically low-level corruption like scheduling an extra couple construction laborers to a project that only needs half of what you assigned.

It's the same problem with the means-tested entitlement programs in the US. Sure outright fraud (e.g. welfare queen) is not worth talking about it's so rare. But the day to day low-level fraud that is endemic and pervasive to the system? Never counted in any studies.

The general incompetence and fraud has slowly (the older I get) become the norm. It's rare you come across competently done projects these days that are not swamped by fraud and waste.

I guess my point is that it's so common it's simply become normalized these days, and people no longer even see it as fraud/corruption/sloth - it's simply the way things are. It's not just construction - it's practically everything. I guess it's pretty similar to cost disease.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#352

Post by grillvogel »

mason240 wrote: post #177
Mz wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And America's love affair with the automobile is a well-known abusive relationship that America will never have the courage to leave. From what I have read, Millenials are putting noteworthy pressure on this aspect of American culture. Also, I gave up my car years ago. With the magic of the internet, I work online. I mostly walk everywhere and occasionally take public transit. I think we can change this substantially…

You're free to live how you choose, but don't force others to live how you see fit.

well by choosing to drive yourself to work every day in a wasteful petroleum burning vehicle you are forcing the rest of us to live with your pollution

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#354

Post by specialist »

watwut wrote: post #332
TulliusCicero wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. America's forced dominance of the automobile is pretty grossly unethical. Freedom means the ability to make meaningful choices, and if biking is incredibly dangerous, transit is slow and infrequent, and nothing is within walking distance, then those are hardly meaningful options, are they? Building to support multiple modes of transportation is the freedom-loving thing to do. Want to walk? Go for it! Transit?…

Biking is not "incredibly dangerous". It plenty safe. It is healthy. It however sometimes slows down cars and some drivers are then motivated to frame biking as dangerous activity to stop it. But really really really, biking is not incredibly dangerous.

I've bike commuted to work. In a very bike friendly area.

Everyone I know has been in an accident of some sort. Hit & runs, side swipes, doored, pushed (deliberately), etc.

After better infrastructure, the most effective way to improve safety is to have more cyclists. I think we're in a rough transition period, but things are definitely getting better.

One of my bike buddies thinks things will really change once moms start cycling en masse. That'd change the perception from gonzo bike dudes to totally uncool in a heartbeat, evoking much less hostility.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#355

Post by Mz »

specialist wrote: post #344
mason240 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're free to live how you choose, but don't force others to live how you see fit.

Diverting some of the cheddar from highways to public transit is hardly depriving anyone of their cherished way of life.

In many areas, just removing outright hostile barriers to pedestrians would vastly improve walkability in the US while possibly going entirely unnoticed by drivers. I once walked to a shopping center with a fence partway around the property that forced me to go far out of my way to go in using the car entrance. A small gap in the fence next to the cross walk would have done wonders for me and most drivers would not have noticed the difference.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#356

Post by pluto24 »

grillvogel wrote: post #352
mason240 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're free to live how you choose, but don't force others to live how you see fit.

well by choosing to drive yourself to work every day in a wasteful petroleum burning vehicle you are forcing the rest of us to live with your pollution

I drive a Civic hybrid. My decision to not have kids has had a far greater environmental impact.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#357

Post by primeblue »

mason240 wrote: post #199
Mz wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how that in any way suggests what you are saying. There are a lot of people who currently feel forced into long commutes who hate them. There are a lot of people who are trapped in the situation of they need a car to get to work, they need a job to afford a car because a car is often the second biggest household expense after housing itself. I am talking about opening up options, not putting a gun to anyo…

They have right to choose to limit their standard of living, as you have done, and move to an urban core and be completely dependent on transit for transportation. Only one of us wants to "change this substantially."

Have you tried carrying 10 shopping bags a couple of miles with screaming toddlers and young kids?

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#358

Post by everybodyknows »

cylinder wrote: post #310
wahern wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those liability problems exist in every advanced Western country. It's true that litigation is more costly in common law countries, in some cases twice as high, and that this cost can be internalized in the ways you suggest. But those costs only account for single-digit percentages overall. What you describe could also be understood as an inefficient way of organization that is peculiar to the United States, and a by…

No not really, once you study the legal system of other advanced countries you will realize the US system is completely insane. The verdicts are wild, and we use juries for complex civil litigation. A bunch of regular Joes are supposed to understand torts and then even calculate damages! The result is trial lawyers succeed by playing on emotion, class, race, playing a character, etc., and a bunch of bored confused Jo…

This accounts for trial lawyers reputed aversion to engineers during jury selection: not easily manipulated by emotional appeals, too likely to think about where that $50 million came from and will go to. I've been on the voter rolls for 35 years, and not once called in.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#359

Post by specialist »

LordKano wrote: post #301
Mz wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have two sons. At the time that we chose to go carless, we were living in an apartment complex with endless speed bumps. Driving over the speed bumps into and out of the complex daily was about 3 minutes of torture that we were completely thrilled to give up. Humorously, we have had occasion to put me on a bus for some reason while they walked to the destination in question. I would get ahead of them, then the bus…

Unless you are driving quite a long distance and/or on the open highway, car travel is not as much faster than foot travel as some people seem to believe. I'm going to have to disagree on this one. I can drive to my local Wal-Mart in about 5 minutes. It would take me 30 minutes to walk there. I can drive there. Do my shopping, wait in line, pay, cart my stuff back out to my vehicle and drive home in less than the amo…

Mz is clearly referring to urban (civilized) areas.

The closest WalMart to me (checking...) is 13 miles away.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#360

Post by zanny »

wavefunction wrote: post #259
tannhauser23 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. political system is remarkably vulnerable to pressure from interest groups because power is so fragmented. We have three branches of government at the federal level, with a bicameral legislature, and 50 individual states, each with three branches of government and plethora of local governments. And you need them all on board to do anything big. Imagine that you are the Sierra Club and you want to block const…

I don't believe the Hoover Dam should be replicated. It's a marvel of engineering but I'm opposed to damming any rivers. Damming our rivers like that has had such terrible and unforeseen environmental and economic consequences that I can only hope we un-dam wherever possible.

Depending on how long the river has been dammed up, tearing it down can have reverse ecological consequences now. It only takes about a decade for the downstream to adapt to the limited water flow (or the alternative interpretation is everything dies off within a decade) but after that to reintroduce the full flow would destroy new life that has settled the new environment produced.
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