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IPhone =/= Debian app

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Re: IPhone =/= Debian app

#41

Post by thought_alarm »

telemachos wrote: post #35
thought_alarm wrote: post #23

As Apple's products get more and more popular with developers and users, the anti-Apple criticism get more and more bizarre and inane.

I'm not sure what you think is inane - I wouldn't mind hearing. And I read the post as anti-Appstore more than anti-Apple. (I think it's an important distinction in context.) The poster is responding to this in the thread above him: How many useful applications are in Debian's repositories? 10 thousand? 20 thousand? How long has Debian been around? 17 years? Now compare this to iPhone: 3 years and ~140,000 applicatio…

Funny you should mention the original post, because he makes a very good yet obvious point:

> If 'Free Software' is to succeed as 'Free software' it needs to produce superior product and out compete

It was wrong of him to trot out total app count, because it's a meaningless number, but there's no question that the iPhone has attracted a huge amount of developer interest. This has resulted in a large library of very well-designed and compelling software across all categories, and has allowed independent developers to reach more users than they ever could have dreamed.

Much of this developer traction can be attributed to Apple's management of the App Store, but this kind of exciting software development was happening before the App Store, when developers did it just for fun and had to reverse-engineer the APIs. If you weren't there in 2007, you have no idea how exciting it was.

It says a lot about what can happen when you deliver a compelling piece of hardware running a sophisticated platform. Of course, the reply addressed none of it, and succeeds only in demonstrating a complete lack of understanding about consumer software development in 2010.

Re: IPhone =/= Debian app

#42

Post by telemachos »

thought_alarm wrote: post #41
telemachos wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you think is inane - I wouldn't mind hearing. And I read the post as anti-Appstore more than anti-Apple. (I think it's an important distinction in context.) The poster is responding to this in the thread above him: How many useful applications are in Debian's repositories? 10 thousand? 20 thousand? How long has Debian been around? 17 years? Now compare this to iPhone: 3 years and ~140,000 applicatio…

Funny you should mention the original post, because he makes a very good yet obvious point: > If 'Free Software' is to succeed as 'Free software' it needs to produce superior product and out compete It was wrong of him to trot out total app count, because it's a meaningless number, but there's no question that the iPhone has attracted a huge amount of developer interest. This has resulted in a large library of very w…

Thanks for the extended response. I don't believe that Debian (as the Free Software under discussion here) is in any relevant sense competing with iOS (or OSX, for that matter).

Debian's mission is to provide a universal (as much hardware as possible) operating system freely (free as in beer, free as in freedom). This simply doesn't strike me as the kind of thing that's competing with iOS in any relevant sense.

So, I don't think the author fails to address that point. I think it's irrelevant.

Re: IPhone =/= Debian app

#43

Post by zaphar »

einarvollset wrote: post #18
jonursenbach wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You completely missed the point of the article.

Maybe I did, but you still missed mine and added zero additional value to the conversation. So let me spoonfeed you my point: The OP claims that 99.99% of all websites back in the day were shit, just like 99.99% of all iphone apps today are shit. He then makes a remark that suggests that Debian is a superior platform because the number of debian apps is small/manageable. Now, I pointed out that out of the vast majori…

I don't think he missed your point at all. Would you say that GCC as one of the debian apps others here have mentioned was less successful?

It arguably helps power Facebook, Ebay, Google, Amazon,... and any number of other of those sites you mentioned. Or perhaps Python? is it less successful?

Or perhaps you defined successful in terms of revenue only? In which case that's a very narrowly defined term and the case could be made that such a narrowly defined definition of success adds "zero additional value" to the conversation.

Re: IPhone =/= Debian app

#44

Post by dman »

handelaar wrote: post #40
mortenjorck wrote: post #2

Yes, just like the dot com boom, this growth is unsustainable. But again, just like the dot com boom, once the market has matured to blow away the chaff, what remains will have proven pretty game-changing.

The step in that process you left out was "years-long massive earthquake-level crash leading to complete economic collapse of the micro-economy under discussion", the kind where most of the casualties are all the smart non-founders in the industry. Been there, done that. The primary reason I'm involved in this community is that I was in London before the first crash. Us internet people had been there for a decade or…

Very well put.

Re: IPhone =/= Debian app

#45

Post by cookiecaper »

mikecane wrote: post #8
mortenjorck wrote: post #2

Yes, just like the dot com boom, this growth is unsustainable. But again, just like the dot com boom, once the market has matured to blow away the chaff, what remains will have proven pretty game-changing.

I keep wondering why Jobs keeps pushing HTML5. He too must realize the unsustainability of it all. A collapse has to happen -- and then how many "real" apps will remain for sale? And how many devs will migrate to the web where they don't have to have the approval of Apple or Google or any other hardware maker in order to create and publicize/sell something?

I don't see what this has to do with HTML5. Could you elaborate?

Re: IPhone =/= Debian app

#46

Post by korch »

While I agree with this point completely, I also think bitching about Apple's iPhone and Ipad "apps" is a moot point. 5 years from now it's all going to be html5, and all of these apps will run on any mobile device web browser.

Apple now has such a head start on their app platform that pretty much the only reasonable strategy their competitors can do is collude and standardize on html5 for all apps.

Then Apple has a very big problem—they will be in direct opposition to Google and the rest of the organic, growing web. Never, ever bet against the web, nor face the web upstream.

If you discount 3d games, image manipulation programs, and some other specialized software that really can't "just be a web page", then what is even left for "apps" to do that the web can't?

Apps should have been the web the entire time.

Re: IPhone =/= Debian app

#48

Post by michaelneale »

cookiecaper wrote: post #45
mikecane wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep wondering why Jobs keeps pushing HTML5. He too must realize the unsustainability of it all. A collapse has to happen -- and then how many "real" apps will remain for sale? And how many devs will migrate to the web where they don't have to have the approval of Apple or Google or any other hardware maker in order to create and publicize/sell something?

I don't see what this has to do with HTML5. Could you elaborate?

I think he means that HTML5 is a hedge against the coming collapse in the number and quality of native iOS apps from 3rd parties.

Re: IPhone =/= Debian app

#50

Post by aboodman »

korch wrote: post #46

While I agree with this point completely, I also think bitching about Apple's iPhone and Ipad "apps" is a moot point. 5 years from now it's all going to be html5, and all of these apps will run on any mobile device web browser. Apple now has such a head start on their app platform that pretty much the only reasonable strategy their competitors can do is collude and standardize on html5 for all apps. Then Apple has a…

Ah, 3d games and image manipulation. The last resort of all native arguments. This is going to change pretty rapidly with native client I think.
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