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Facebook's tentacles reach further than people think

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Facebook's tentacles reach further than people think

#161

Post by loup-vaillant »

jacquesm wrote: post #4

The bigger problem for me is how facebook tracks and identifies even people who do not have a facebook account. They simply infer such a person exists from photograps, contacts and other one sided activity and can start to track that person, tie all this information together and then target them with ads even though they never signed up for Facebook. Such shadow profiles are a much larger problem to me than people wh…

People don't seem to realise the ecological harm (privacy wise) in using those services. They don't realise that by using those services, they not only harm their own privacy (which is their to shed), but also other's.

The sentence "I have nothing to hide" that often gets thrown about has two problems. The first is obvious: whoever says it most probably do have something to hide, and are not quite realising it. The second is much more insidious: it frames the debate individualistically. This is a common flaw in our western societies —see for instance copyright debates talking about one artist and one consumer or pirate.

People should realise, as you did, that it is not just about them. I would go even further: using Facebook is not just a personal choice. It's a political one, that affects all around you.

Last year for instance, I was forced to use Facebook by friends from my orchestra. I reluctantly set up an account, and kept up for a while. Then I turn off email notifications because they were so annoying. Then I learned, several times, of decisions or events that were discussed only on Facebook, (without my knowledge since I hardly logged in). When they clued in on my ignorance, they said "but I sent the mail" (no you didn't).

(I have since "deleted" my account. I won't use that crap ever again)

The choice is often between giving up your privacy on Facebook, and being ostracised by such and such group of friends. Disgusting.

Re: Facebook's tentacles reach further than people think

#162

Post by loup-vaillant »

anigbrowl wrote: post #110
jacquesm wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no way I will go down that route. That's defeat and it simply will not happen with me being an enabler. If that means I'll miss out on the occasional party then so be it.

How is that defeat? I have no desire to waste my precious time in an unwinnable arms race. My freedom of action and self-expression are my primary operational need, and I don't want to spend my life creeping around trying to conceal every fact about myself that might be employed as an attack vector. That's not liberty.

Don't you get it? It's not just about you. It's about all around you.

When you're using Facebook, you are doing 2 things: first, you reveal the personal information of everyone around you (bit by bit, each time you reveal your personal information). Second, you strengthen the network effect that incite, sometimes even force people to cave in, use Facebook themselves, and thus reveal their private information.

You don't know it, but using Facebook is not just a personal choice. It's a political choice.

Re: Facebook's tentacles reach further than people think

#163

Post by hueving »

still_grokking wrote: post #117
hueving wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do these targeted ad's really work? The massive income Facebook has seems to imply so.

No, the massive income Facebook generates only imply that the people spending money on targeted ads believe (!) these ad are working. It is not a prove per se these ads really are worth their costs.

>It is not a prove per se these ads really are worth their costs.

So you think that Facebook has collectively convinced thousands of businesses who are repeat customers to use something that is losing them money?

Re: Facebook's tentacles reach further than people think

#164

Post by pbhjpbhj »

ReverseCold wrote: post #73
jacquesm wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We do not scan for advertising purposes in Gmail or other G Suite services. Google does not collect or use data in G Suite services for advertising purposes. You could drive several trucks sideways through the holes in that statement.

> for advertising purposes What other purposes would they use it for? Can anyone think of one?

How about generating a "lifestyle profile" (or psych profile).

They could sell that to a third party, then buy back the profile compounded with other third parties's data to use for advertising. Bonus points if Alphabet (aka Google) control all the companies involved.

?

Re: Facebook's tentacles reach further than people think

#165

Post by ensiferum »

ghughes wrote: post #144
ihm wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love if someone made a Chrome extension that encrypted all the posts and messages you put on Facebook. That is, any post you made would be made as a ciphertext, the extension would swap keys with all your friends in the background, and would decrypt their posts when displaying them to you. Sure Marky Mark still sees when you post, who you send messages to, etc. but it's a much better situation than what's goi…

You're so close to what I am currently building that I feel like I have to chime in. I left Apple's security team a few months ago to go solo and build an app that is similar to Facebook/Instagram and Snapchat in terms of functionality and UX but uses the Olm protocol (similar to Signal) to protect all content. So, fear not - something is being done, and I'm sure I'm not the only one working in this problem space. I…

I see the problem with this is gaining traction. With no users on board you'll have no users on board.

Unless ofc you're just building this for yourself and your friends, which is something I thought about doing myself but then realized that even my friends cba to install yet another chat app.

Re: Facebook's tentacles reach further than people think

#166

Post by Flow »

narag wrote: post #106
tomcam wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember that picture. It was your "PHP programmer of the year award" that you didn't want your Haskell-hacking friends to see. Disgraceful!

LOL! Actually it was just a selfie with a moustache, OK I said it :) I had grown a three weeks beard and took a photo when I was half shaved. No offense to moustache lovers, it just didn't suit me well.

Cops everywhere appreciate your last sentence.

Re: Facebook's tentacles reach further than people think

#167

Post by lemming »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #97
bipr0 wrote: post #23

Facebook is the new NSA inside the flesh of a social media site. And that's scary.

They might be worse. The NSA, after all, is at least ostensibly only after terrorists and such.

And, as ridiculous and slipshod as the whole thing is, the NSA is at least subject to some degree of oversight and regulation.

Re: Facebook's tentacles reach further than people think

#168

Post by aerique »

Kiro wrote: post #137
devopsproject wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An easy disarm is "You are confusing privacy with secrecy. It is no secret what happens in the bathroom. It doesn't mean we are going to remove the doors because people still want privacy"

No, that's not an easy disarm. They just say "you're welcome to watch me poop".

"But I don't want to watch you poop." That's why I don't use Facebook.

Re: Facebook's tentacles reach further than people think

#169

Post by fidz »

makecheck wrote: post #72

In computer security, every time machines become fast enough to breach the limits of an algorithm we invent something new so that “hard” problems remain “hard” and therefore encryption is still secure. There has been no corresponding increase in the difficulty of invading privacy. 30 years ago, even though you probably “could” observe somebody for a long time and eventually connect some dots about them, it would not…

Exactly. Once we can understand P vs. NP completely, all cypto algorithm today will be obsolete since crypto algorithm today ONLY rely on that "hard" problem.

Re: Facebook's tentacles reach further than people think

#170

Post by d33 »

fidz wrote: post #169
makecheck wrote: post #72

In computer security, every time machines become fast enough to breach the limits of an algorithm we invent something new so that “hard” problems remain “hard” and therefore encryption is still secure. There has been no corresponding increase in the difficulty of invading privacy. 30 years ago, even though you probably “could” observe somebody for a long time and eventually connect some dots about them, it would not…

Exactly. Once we can understand P vs. NP completely, all cypto algorithm today will be obsolete since crypto algorithm today ONLY rely on that "hard" problem.

Only if P = NP, right?
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