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Facebook's tentacles reach further than people think

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Facebook's tentacles reach further than people think

#141

Post by zmb_ »

linkregister wrote: post #12
jacquesm wrote: post #4

The bigger problem for me is how facebook tracks and identifies even people who do not have a facebook account. They simply infer such a person exists from photograps, contacts and other one sided activity and can start to track that person, tie all this information together and then target them with ads even though they never signed up for Facebook. Such shadow profiles are a much larger problem to me than people wh…

Do European Union users have a recourse against this? Or do they have to create an account, then request a deletion?

In principle yes, in practice Facebook does not follow the EU laws. For example, they are required to provide you with all the data they hold about you. I requested this data (shadow profile) from them multiple times, they never responded. The next step would be to contact the Irish authorities responsible for overseeing FB, but from what I read they don't process complaints against FB, and the next place would be some EU court to force them to do their job.

Re: Facebook's tentacles reach further than people think

#142

Post by matz1 »

devopsproject wrote: post #9
keth wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have acquaintances like that as well. They are usually the "I have nothing to hide" kind of type. :(

An easy disarm is "You are confusing privacy with secrecy. It is no secret what happens in the bathroom. It doesn't mean we are going to remove the doors because people still want privacy"

I've been thinking about this. Having to prevent being observed is not without cost and many time is inconvenience and annoying. Why do I even need the door closed in the first place ? Because other people will I think I'm weird ? Is it cultural thing? Why do I have to feel embarrassed/ashamed when people see me in the bathroom ? What if as the society changes to become more open, the more people leave the door open, the more it become the norm, then I don't even need to care anymore whether the door is open or close when I'm using the bathroom.

Re: Facebook's tentacles reach further than people think

#144

Post by ghughes »

ihm wrote: post #123
makecheck wrote: post #72

In computer security, every time machines become fast enough to breach the limits of an algorithm we invent something new so that “hard” problems remain “hard” and therefore encryption is still secure. There has been no corresponding increase in the difficulty of invading privacy. 30 years ago, even though you probably “could” observe somebody for a long time and eventually connect some dots about them, it would not…

I would love if someone made a Chrome extension that encrypted all the posts and messages you put on Facebook. That is, any post you made would be made as a ciphertext, the extension would swap keys with all your friends in the background, and would decrypt their posts when displaying them to you. Sure Marky Mark still sees when you post, who you send messages to, etc. but it's a much better situation than what's goi…

You're so close to what I am currently building that I feel like I have to chime in. I left Apple's security team a few months ago to go solo and build an app that is similar to Facebook/Instagram and Snapchat in terms of functionality and UX but uses the Olm protocol (similar to Signal) to protect all content. So, fear not - something is being done, and I'm sure I'm not the only one working in this problem space. I think it's ripe for innovation, counter to popular belief; the trick is to do it in a way that doesn't require a PhD in computers to operate the damn thing, as was the issue with previous attempts.

Re: Facebook's tentacles reach further than people think

#145

Post by AnonymousPlanet »

tzs wrote: post #126
thr0waway1239 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unethical: lacking moral principles. Moral: of, relating to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong I think it is "clearly wrong" that Facebook creates shadow profiles, because it is violating the freedom of people who have not signed up for their service, in the same way that it is clearly wrong for me to take away your favorite pet for ritualistic sacri…

I doubt that he doesn't understand what "unethical" means. The question is how does what Facebook is doing qualify? You've said it is because it violates the freedom of people Facebook is making inferences about who are not users of Facebook's services. That just shifts the question to how does it violate their freedom? That is not at all obvious to me. (NOTE: this does not mean that I'm saying it is OK...just that I…

You would be more like Facebook, if you 1) would publish your observations or otherwise provide it to third parties 2) sit at nearly all streets all the time, e.g., observing whatever those house guests are up to the rest of their time.

Imagine, you share your observations with, say, a PI who was hired by a paranoid spouse or by someone's employer.

Facebook is like a vast and far reaching network of nosy neighbours of whom you do not know who they are chatty with. Maybe someone who likes to jump to conclusions?

Re: Facebook's tentacles reach further than people think

#146

Post by sandov »

ihm wrote: post #123
makecheck wrote: post #72

In computer security, every time machines become fast enough to breach the limits of an algorithm we invent something new so that “hard” problems remain “hard” and therefore encryption is still secure. There has been no corresponding increase in the difficulty of invading privacy. 30 years ago, even though you probably “could” observe somebody for a long time and eventually connect some dots about them, it would not…

I would love if someone made a Chrome extension that encrypted all the posts and messages you put on Facebook. That is, any post you made would be made as a ciphertext, the extension would swap keys with all your friends in the background, and would decrypt their posts when displaying them to you. Sure Marky Mark still sees when you post, who you send messages to, etc. but it's a much better situation than what's goi…

I had thought something similar, but with Google drive instead of Facebook. To create a rogue client that encrypts my files, uploads them to Drive encrypted, but presents them nicely unencrypted in my local machine. That way I get the free (as in beer) cloud storage, but google doesn't spy on my files.

Re: Facebook's tentacles reach further than people think

#147

Post by omnimus »

ghughes wrote: post #144
ihm wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love if someone made a Chrome extension that encrypted all the posts and messages you put on Facebook. That is, any post you made would be made as a ciphertext, the extension would swap keys with all your friends in the background, and would decrypt their posts when displaying them to you. Sure Marky Mark still sees when you post, who you send messages to, etc. but it's a much better situation than what's goi…

You're so close to what I am currently building that I feel like I have to chime in. I left Apple's security team a few months ago to go solo and build an app that is similar to Facebook/Instagram and Snapchat in terms of functionality and UX but uses the Olm protocol (similar to Signal) to protect all content. So, fear not - something is being done, and I'm sure I'm not the only one working in this problem space. I…

I run design collective (group of designers and design students) we have been looking for social media projects to help. Is your project aimed to be opensource or it is comercial bussiness?

We could might be able to help. Even just with small things like design analisys and testing.

Re: Facebook's tentacles reach further than people think

#148

Post by a2decrow »

contingencies wrote: post #89
chrischen wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Email also isn't very popular in China. I'd surmise it has something to do with the popularity of instant messaging in the new generation internet users.

Yes. Also the fact that half of the west's trigger-happy sysadmins banned all Chinese IP addresses from virtually any cross-border SMTP activity because 'spam'.

Not sure if you're sarcastic, but that's literally all I get from there. Spam and brute force attempts.

The IP addresses fail2ban unbans are banned again 2 to 5 minutes later.

Re: Facebook's tentacles reach further than people think

#149

Post by sandov »

thr0waway1239 wrote: post #93
baddox wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you pretend I either disagree or have yet to form an opinion, and explain why this is "clearly unethical"?

Unethical: lacking moral principles. Moral: of, relating to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong I think it is "clearly wrong" that Facebook creates shadow profiles, because it is violating the freedom of people who have not signed up for their service, in the same way that it is clearly wrong for me to take away your favorite pet for ritualistic sacri…

Well, your moral principles are very different from mine. I don't feel like I (or the state) should have a say about what goes on inside of Facebook's servers, they can do whatever they want with the information they have as long as the don't use coercion (to me, freedom is the lack of coercion).

That said, I do believe that there's a practical problem, but it's us that must try to solve it, we must educate people, we must ask our friends not to post our photos or personal info on social media, etc.

Re: Facebook's tentacles reach further than people think

#150

Post by ghughes »

omnimus wrote: post #147
ghughes wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're so close to what I am currently building that I feel like I have to chime in. I left Apple's security team a few months ago to go solo and build an app that is similar to Facebook/Instagram and Snapchat in terms of functionality and UX but uses the Olm protocol (similar to Signal) to protect all content. So, fear not - something is being done, and I'm sure I'm not the only one working in this problem space. I…

I run design collective (group of designers and design students) we have been looking for social media projects to help. Is your project aimed to be opensource or it is comercial bussiness? We could might be able to help. Even just with small things like design analisys and testing.

Both; there will be ads and the source will be publicly available, license TBD. Please get in touch, email is in my profile.
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