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Chrome Won

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Re: Chrome Won

#471

Post by josefx »

659087 wrote: post #433
PatentTroll wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: why do you use hundreds of tabs at the same time? Why not bookmarks and leave a couple of the most important ones open? I have never understood the use case for "hundreds" of browser tabs

If you want to be 10x, you need at least 10 stackoverflow tabs open to copy and paste from. I've always assumed people talking about having hundreds of tabs open just don't understand how to properly use a browser. My grandmother, for example, usually has 100 or so open by the time I get a call about her having computer problems. There's no logical reason I can come up with for doing this instead of using bookmarks.

> If you want to be 10x, you need at least 10 stackoverflow tabs open to copy and paste from

I open pages that interest me, I might read them later like I did this discussion or just drop them. Add in open tickets, reference pages, the build server, youtube, etc. and the number grows over time.

> My grandmother, for example, usually has 100 or so open by the time I get a call about her having computer problems.

Maybe she should use Firefox instead of Chrome?

> There's no logical reason I can come up with for doing this instead of using bookmarks.

I did this when I started, by now I only use bookmarks for high interest pages, no point in bookmarking everything.

Re: Chrome Won

#472

Post by Spooky23 »

hoekit wrote: post #369
Spooky23 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to make wacky statements like this to pull off the "visionary" schtick. All of the hotshots were talking Post-PC world in 2011. The reality is that computers are still computers. Mobile is the new TV. I run EUC in a large diversified enterprise. We have about 0.05% pure mobile users, mostly iPad based. That is growing quickly, but probably won't exceed 3% in the next 5 years based on the current pipeline. Th…

> The reality is that computers are still computers. Mobile is the new TV. Thanks for this. It summarizes succinctly my uneasy observations of large numbers of mobile users. For desktop power users, however, the mobile is somewhat an extension of their desktop.

Power users are always different.

My MacBook is my work life. My phone is super important to me, but given some devil's choice, I'd go back to a StarTac before giving up the laptop!

My wife is the opposite. For her, in both professional and personal contexts, the computer is more like a screwdriver -- just another tool. The phone is where the computing happens, and you'd have to pry it out of her cold dead fingers.

Re: Chrome Won

#473

Post by dnautics »

leephillips wrote: post #124
MBCook wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is we're moving extremely fast to a chrome only world. If it wasn't for corporate sites and the success of the iPhone chrome would probably be dominating the way IE used to. I definitely run into sites that only work on chrome and not in any other browser. In my opinion chrome isn't doing a good job either. It's a massive energy hog and waste more CPU than it needs to. Unlike IE and FireFox and Safari it…

I use Firefox and haven't run into this problem. I guess I've been lucky. Why Firefox rather than Chrome? On my Google Chromebook (original Pixel), Chrome (the last versions I tried) are almost completely unusable - it hogs all the CPU until it crawls to a stop and needs to be killed. Even if they fix that, I'm not going back, however, because Firefox's handling of text is so immensely superior. It was bad years ago¹…

It's even worse. I would sometimes accidentally write infinite recursion in chrome and it would lock the computer. I think this happens if your recursion involves the DOM because chrome unsafely uses privileged resources to accelerate layout. The same code in Firefox would only slow to a crawl and be recoverable.

Re: Chrome Won

#474

Post by Manishearth »

markdog12 wrote: post #348
lelandbatey wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Servo is already a runnable browser, and I'm amazed how fast it is. It still has rendering issues with plenty (any reasonably complicated media-heavy site, i.e.: cnn.com) of sites, but even then, it's already an amazing piece of technology. On top of that, the point of Servo isn't to be a brand new full on browser, it's to be a proving ground for a next-gen engine. And it's proving to be fast, safe, and the future of…

> Servo is already a runnable browser, and I'm amazed how fast it is First of all, I think the idea behind Servo is awesome, and I follow it. But I've been testing it on Mac OS and Windows, and it is not a runnable browser, nor fast (as expected!). CPU is often fully pegged and it's very iffy if any UI elements or page loads work. Not to say they won't get there, but it's still very, very early and buggy.

Yeah, we don't track perf regressions like released browsers so often we land something that negates the performance benefit. The current servo releases are just alpha, so it's not too important to stay on top of, but we should probably start caring about this more.

We had a similar issue with Stylo (Servo style system in gecko) recently where there were bugs in the parallelism code making us slower than gecko. Fixed, now we're faster again. We only recently started tracking performance properly, and it was caught and fixed in a few weeks.

Re: Chrome Won

#475

Post by WorldMaker »

dhimes wrote: post #402
mercer wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate how, as a web developer, I've probably been part of the problem. My workflow has somehow ended up being 'do everything in chrome and only at the end test if it all works in firefox and safari'. More than once I forgot that step and ended up making small fixes for Safari on request, but not Firefox because nobody reported issues. Once I became aware of this, I've been trying to be more diligent about thoroughly…

FWIW, I'm exactly the opposite. I dev on firefox, only bother with chrome at the last minute (although I'll check it's responsive mode a little earlier) and get somebody else to check safari.

I think Firefox's Developer Edition has been providing better dev tools than Chrome for some time. But then I've never been entirely happy with Chrome's Dev Tools having grown up on Firebug and relatives for Firefox. But then I've never liked Chrome and I only have Chrome installed because my corporate environment has become one of those that mandates Chrome because that's the only thing IT at large can be bothered to test for internal facing sites. As a developer of externally facing sites, I laugh/cry in their general direction.

(Also, I think a lot of people discount how good Edge's Dev Tools have gotten. There too my corporate mandated environment is mostly stuck with Windows 7 and an intentionally broken IE 11 due to Oracle and using their terrible software internally.)

Re: Chrome Won

#476

Post by WorldMaker »

wordupmaking wrote: post #415
vanderZwan wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do wonder how much of that is the browser's fault, and how much is because of website developers not understanding that we have a website obesity problem[0], nor the concept of "optimizing for fan noise"[1]. I'm fairly conscientious about this myself since I'm working on plotting data, and the dumb client-side number crunching involved is actually pretty good at eating CPU cycles. Most plotting libraries want to sh…

Both, since browser these days don't even show the number of connections and download speed for a loading page, much less an indicator for high CPU usage. I'm not saying displaying this stuff would be enough by itself, but hiding what is going on just so we can have a slightly bigger viewport into unicolor surfaces with huge padding and line spacing certainly doesn't help. I know there are all sorts of flags etc, but…

F12 has becomes something of the universal key for Dev Tools in the browsers. It's not compact, but it is super useful and does have all the information and more. Most browsers even offer Profilers to get detailed stats on CPU and Memory usage.

Sure, it doesn't explain to average users why the webpages they view might be slow, but average users don't care.

Re: Chrome Won

#477

Post by cptskippy »

kbutler wrote: post #419
ysavir wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Profits and usage are different categories. Apple might be taking more money home, but that's not what is being discussed. The points being made were about having control and influence over the ecosystem.

Do web developers feel like their applications must support iOS? Why? Because iOS users are a significant source of potential profit. Apple doesn't need to maximize usage in order to control the ecosystem - they just need to maximize profit potential.

Our team has become more and more focused on supporting two platforms with our App Development effort, Apple and Samsung. 75% of our users have an iPhone 5S or newer. The remaining 25% is a mix of Android, other iOS devices and older iPhones. Of the Android users, 80% are using some Samsung device.

Re: Chrome Won

#478

Post by blacksmith_tb »

oxide wrote: post #154
leephillips wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Firefox and haven't run into this problem. I guess I've been lucky. Why Firefox rather than Chrome? On my Google Chromebook (original Pixel), Chrome (the last versions I tried) are almost completely unusable - it hogs all the CPU until it crawls to a stop and needs to be killed. Even if they fix that, I'm not going back, however, because Firefox's handling of text is so immensely superior. It was bad years ago¹…

The most specific example I can think of is the sears credit card site, I couldn't pay the bill with Firefox, so I keep a Chrome installation handy for the occasion a site doesn't work.

BofA has some flash-based services which I have to switch from FF to Chrome in order to use, sigh.

Re: Chrome Won

#480

Post by willhslade »

hooluupog wrote: post #353
eloisant wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google regained control of Android many years ago by progressively moving every bit that matters from AOSP to Google Apps and Google Play Services. Now OEM have to obey to Google because losing the Google apps and services licence (thus losing the Play store and the whole ecosystem) basically means they're dead as an Android manufacturer.

Except china.

Can you elaborate for people not in the loop as much?
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