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Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015

latimes.com

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Re: Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015

#81

Post by stupidhn »

ahannigan wrote: post #77

Even the new title, "Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015". Who cares? The very definition of "industry average" means that someone in the industry will be above or below the average. Why would I want to read about that? Why pick on Tesla? because they're popular?

>Who cares? The very definition of "industry average" means that someone in the industry will be above or below the average.

People seem to think it matters when they claim Tesla is "above average" in autonomous driving capability, or automated car manufacturing.

But yeah, "who cares" about people getting hurt in blue-collar industries, am I right?

Re: Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015

#82

Post by emodendroket »

ahannigan wrote: post #77

Even the new title, "Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015". Who cares? The very definition of "industry average" means that someone in the industry will be above or below the average. Why would I want to read about that? Why pick on Tesla? because they're popular?

> The records show a rate of safety incidents reported at the company’s Fremont, Calif., auto plant significantly higher than the auto industry average — as much as 31% higher in 2015.

Re: Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015

#83

Post by emodendroket »

microcolonel wrote: post #66
dang wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, we've changed the baity title to representative language from the article, in accordance with https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . All: let's please have a more substantive discussion now. It's amazing how sensitive these threads are to hot coals in the title.

FWIW, the article is written in a vindictive and personal tone; there's basically no way that's going to generate a balanced discussion about the ethics of workplace risk, or the usefulness of labour statistics.

I don't see that at all.

Re: Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015

#84

Post by emodendroket »

stupidhn wrote: post #80
the_duke wrote: post #48

There have been numerous articles over the last few weeks, all in the same vain. And all with very click-baity negative headlines and articles that don't exactly seem like neutral reporting of an issue. I'd bet that there is some PR firm trying to drum up anti Tesla sentiments. (I'm not saying that there wasn't or isn't an issue at Tesla factories, but the kind of reporting stinks like PR campaign).

> I'd bet that there is some PR firm trying to drum up anti Tesla sentiments. Anything anti-Tesla is part of some PR conspiracy. Meanwhile, 10 vapid, fluff-pieces from Electrek or random Musk tweets show up on the front page every week. Have you considered that, perhaps, it's not all rainbows and unicorns with this company?

It definitely seems to me that Elon Musk's online fans are almost personally invested in him.

Re: Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015

#85

Post by stupidhn »

theprop wrote: post #53

"The scores don’t account for severity, however. The injuries at Tesla appear to be related to long hours and ergonomic design." Not to say that any harm to your health should be avoided, but by auto industry standards (other than Tesla) to this day serious incidents involve losing limbs or death. I know they're pushing everyone at Tesla as the company is still losing a lot amount of money, but it's not clear that an…

>at other auto companies, they are and the result is literally loss of limb and life.

Comparing the safety history of a company that has produced fewer than 200,000 vehicles ever to companies that produce many multiples of that, annually, and have been in operation for over a hundred years is ridiculous.

Man, if you can brand yourself a "tech company" the Silicon Valley technorati will apologize for anything.

Re: Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015

#87

Post by emodendroket »

blackguardx wrote: post #25
zaroth wrote: post #13

There's no defending Tesla's worker rights or saftey record. This is a company that's stood at the brink of failure for years and only survives through the blood, sweat, and tears of its employees. Maybe you believe Elon when he says that it's worth it, but there's no arguing that it's a steep price to pay. It's incredibly frustrating that no one has figured out a way to bring about the kind of transformative change…

I don't think line workers should be asked to sacrifice their health to make the company successful. It is highly unlikely they are getting any meaningful stock options or bonuses associated with their level of sacrifice. It isn't the equivalent of a startup employee working through the holidays to ship code. The benefits of workplace ergonomics, not only to employee health but also to production speed, have been kno…

> It isn't the equivalent of a startup employee working through the holidays to ship code.

I agree but I think that scenario can also be pretty exploitative.

Re: Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015

#88

Post by emodendroket »

ars wrote: post #24
zaroth wrote: post #13

There's no defending Tesla's worker rights or saftey record. This is a company that's stood at the brink of failure for years and only survives through the blood, sweat, and tears of its employees. Maybe you believe Elon when he says that it's worth it, but there's no arguing that it's a steep price to pay. It's incredibly frustrating that no one has figured out a way to bring about the kind of transformative change…

You should read the article. They are a high number of incidents, but they are mostly minor things. It's a poor way to compare a company's safety record.

I have to think that any industry with a high rate of injuries is going to have far more "minor" injuries than amputations and deaths.

Re: Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015

#89

Post by emodendroket »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #40
owenversteeg wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, exactly, is "worth it", though? SpaceX, sure, that could be worth it. They're actually innovating. But Tesla? A goddamn car company? What the hell is so important about fancy cars for rich people that they have to screw the workers for? Sure, they call themselves an "energy company", and they have made "amazing advances in energy technology", but both Tesla's fancy solar panel AND battery "advances" are literal…

Global warming. We're at or past the tipping point already, but electric cars and solar houses are definitely the direction we need to be going if we want to avoid disastrous and irreversible climate change. If-- if --Tesla can help make that happen, it'll be worth a lot of sacrifice.

I have real doubts about switching to electric cars being adequate to address that problem.

Re: Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015

#90

Post by emodendroket »

briandear wrote: post #58
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Global warming. We're at or past the tipping point already, but electric cars and solar houses are definitely the direction we need to be going if we want to avoid disastrous and irreversible climate change. If-- if --Tesla can help make that happen, it'll be worth a lot of sacrifice.

What caused climate change before there were people?

Fires have started without human intervention in the past. Therefore, arson is a myth.
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