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Florida GOP consultant admits he worked with Guccifer 2.0, analyzing hacked data

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Re: Florida GOP consultant admits he worked with Guccifer 2.0, analyzing hacked data

#31

Post by gragas »

ItendToDisagree wrote: post #25
gragas wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sure looks like "truth" was not the element that was in Russia's interests. I never claimed the truth was in Russia's interests. As I clearly said, it's in Russia's interests for the GOP to win. That would mean NOT leaking RNC documents. I was very glad to know just how corrupt the DNC and the Democratic party were before I voted in November.

Your post quoted: "So it's better to hide the truth from voters if that means voters knowing the truth is in Russia's interest? How is being more informed a bad thing?" Where did you 'clearly say' it was in Russia's interests for the GOP to win? It sure sounds like you already had your mind made up and no leak of RNC corruption could ever be big enough to sway you anyway.

My bad, I was referring to another comment thread.

>It sure sounds like you already had your mind made up

I'm just interested in making the most informed decision I can.

Re: Florida GOP consultant admits he worked with Guccifer 2.0, analyzing hacked data

#32

Post by maxlybbert »

ItendToDisagree wrote: post #25
gragas wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sure looks like "truth" was not the element that was in Russia's interests. I never claimed the truth was in Russia's interests. As I clearly said, it's in Russia's interests for the GOP to win. That would mean NOT leaking RNC documents. I was very glad to know just how corrupt the DNC and the Democratic party were before I voted in November.

Your post quoted: "So it's better to hide the truth from voters if that means voters knowing the truth is in Russia's interest? How is being more informed a bad thing?" Where did you 'clearly say' it was in Russia's interests for the GOP to win? It sure sounds like you already had your mind made up and no leak of RNC corruption could ever be big enough to sway you anyway.

I think the argument is "knowing information that is truthful, even if it's incomplete."

Re: Florida GOP consultant admits he worked with Guccifer 2.0, analyzing hacked data

#33

Post by moduspol »

uncle_d wrote: post #26
luma wrote: post #3

So the GOP is directly admitting to collusion with Russian agents in order to disrupt US elections. Are we OK with this as a country?

Has anyone publicly presented any concrete evidence whatsoever that the Russians were involved in any way in influencing the U.S. election as yet? Just asking, for a friend :)

The intelligence agencies looked at the evidence and claim it was the Russians, and somehow tied it back to the Russian government.

The NSA leak weeks later that confirmed sophisticated and documented techniques for making hacks appear to come from somewhere else (e.g. by using existing known-Russian C&C servers) is unrelated, and it's apparently unfathomable to think anyone else would be able to use the same techniques.

Also, none of us have ever read history books, which are full of wars and witch hunts started over unverifiable claims by people in power that turned out to be mistaken (at best) or lies (at worst) to push their agenda.

So I'm not sure why you're asking for concrete evidence. They said it was the Russians trying to get Trump elected. Is that not good enough for you?

Re: Florida GOP consultant admits he worked with Guccifer 2.0, analyzing hacked data

#34

Post by allemagne »

gragas wrote: post #12
luma wrote: post #3

So the GOP is directly admitting to collusion with Russian agents in order to disrupt US elections. Are we OK with this as a country?

So it's better to hide the truth from voters if that means voters knowing the truth is in Russia's interest? How is being more informed a bad thing?

RTA

>DCCC documents sent to Mr. Nevins analyzed specific Florida districts, showing how many people were dependable Democratic voters, how many were likely Democratic voters but needed a nudge, how many were frequent voters but not committed and how many were core Republican voters—the kind of data strategists use in planning ad buys and other tactics.

This was not about informing voters, it was about specifically giving Republicans an advantage.

Re: Florida GOP consultant admits he worked with Guccifer 2.0, analyzing hacked data

#35

Post by tiles »

moduspol wrote: post #27
luma wrote: post #3

So the GOP is directly admitting to collusion with Russian agents in order to disrupt US elections. Are we OK with this as a country?

The hack was public knowledge in June of 2016, and it's only fairly recently that it's been known (asserted?) that Guccifer 2.0 was acting on behalf of the Russian government. It also says, "GOP campaign consultant." That's a third party contractor--not quite indicative of a high level conspiracy. I think that's a far, far cry from what you're claiming.

Not to trot out the "what if this involved the DNC, the GOP would call for blood" meme, but it's certainly justified to feel outrage over a consultant for a party colluding with a foreign entity to influence an election. It's equally possible that the party knew about the actions of their contractor, since they were on their payroll.

Re: Florida GOP consultant admits he worked with Guccifer 2.0, analyzing hacked data

#36

Post by baldeagle »

Seems like this was closer to 'Lyft obtains a leaked copy of the Uber go to market strategy for FL, TX, etc' than 'Waymo obtains notice that Uber bought secrets'. As such, there was nothing moral/truth-y to be learned from it, but a lot of tactical knowledge. I'm all for transparency, but this is more akin to corporate espionage than whistle blowing.

I think this is trying to show second order effects of the hack, in that it changed ground level tactics in addition to influencing hearts and minds. What ever you believe about the source of the hack, this event damages the idea of a noble hacker seeking to expose wrong doing.

Re: Florida GOP consultant admits he worked with Guccifer 2.0, analyzing hacked data

#37

Post by tiles »

gragas wrote: post #22
DonbunEf7 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I have all of your personal data? It's okay, I just want to be more informed about your darker side before my next vote.

What if the DNC did some really not okay things? Nah, you're right, we shouldn't know about them because the DNC wouldn't want that... Of course I wouldn't like you to have all my personal data. But the point of an election is for the people to make the most informed decision, not for me to feel good.

What informed decision do we learn from a member of a political party getting to frame the narrative about their opponent's secrets though? This isn't journalism, it was a smear campaign.

Re: Florida GOP consultant admits he worked with Guccifer 2.0, analyzing hacked data

#38

Post by [deleted] »

maxlybbert wrote: post #30
moduspol wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hack was public knowledge in June of 2016, and it's only fairly recently that it's been known (asserted?) that Guccifer 2.0 was acting on behalf of the Russian government. It also says, "GOP campaign consultant." That's a third party contractor--not quite indicative of a high level conspiracy. I think that's a far, far cry from what you're claiming.

Especially since the "collusion" occurred after the breach. --- I should probably mention that if getting this data doesn't qualify as "receiving stolen property," it should. The consultant could learn a lot from Pepsi ( https://www.theguardian.com/media/2006/jul/07/marketingandpr... ), but there is a difference between coordinating with somebody to steal data and getting data that has already been stolen.

[deleted]

Re: Florida GOP consultant admits he worked with Guccifer 2.0, analyzing hacked data

#39

Post by rubyfan »

gragas wrote: post #14

Why does this have a negative twist? Is it not a good thing that voters were more informed of the darker sides of the DNC and the Democratic party before voting?

The popular narrative has been GOP colluded with Russia, hence the negativity (not that I agree one way or the other)

Re: Florida GOP consultant admits he worked with Guccifer 2.0, analyzing hacked data

#40

Post by mythrwy »

moduspol wrote: post #33
uncle_d wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has anyone publicly presented any concrete evidence whatsoever that the Russians were involved in any way in influencing the U.S. election as yet? Just asking, for a friend :)

The intelligence agencies looked at the evidence and claim it was the Russians, and somehow tied it back to the Russian government. The NSA leak weeks later that confirmed sophisticated and documented techniques for making hacks appear to come from somewhere else (e.g. by using existing known-Russian C&C servers) is unrelated, and it's apparently unfathomable to think anyone else would be able to use the same techniq…

"They said . Is that not good enough for you?"

Generic answer for all questions of that general format.

NO!

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