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Show HN: ORY Editor – A rich editor for the browser, built with React and Redux

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Re: Show HN: ORY Editor – A rich editor for the browser, built with React and Redux

#71

Post by ythn »

ctoth wrote: post #61
arekkas wrote: post #20

The high CPU and memory usage was due to a large gif which was included two times. This gif accidentally was 1280p with 20fps and was about 40mb large. For some reason, the resizer did not properly work. Anyways, the gif is now removed. I hope the performance gets much better now. The CPU fans on macbooks going up where probably due to a lack of a dedicated graphics card. This happened to me with my macbook and large…

This does not appear to work at all with my screen reader. Accessibility as afterthought, as always. I used to look forward to trying to help people fix their stuff to be accessible, but now I'm just tired of every single fucking thing somebody creates being broken for me because everything is a complete heaping pile of inaccessible garbage and nobody even thinks about accessibility. It's not like there aren't thousa…

> Accessibility as afterthought, as always.

You are in a minority. Minorities are always an afterthought. It's hard meeting the needs of every single minority - there are so many with many diverse needs.

Re: Show HN: ORY Editor – A rich editor for the browser, built with React and Redux

#72

Post by ctoth »

ctoth wrote: post #68
Operyl wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess something I have trouble wrapping my head around is when is it acceptable to give up on a11y? I mean, it seems improbable to get a11y into an expansive CLI application. Or a 3D game. When does it become OK to give up?

> it seems improbable to get a11y into an expansive CLI application Why? I used to use make menuconfig back in 2000--why should it not work now? 3d game? This I'll grant you. Some experiences are just not replicatable for the blind, though if you're interested in this at all check out the weird and wonderful world of audiogames and 3d audio with HRTF. An editor? Even a visual editor? Is not one of these experiences.…

I don't really understand your question. Mark what up, a command line interface? They don't really have markup.

If I'm trying to read a lot of data in a CLI, the output of top, for instance, I need to read by line with the screen reader fixed to a given column offset but it works fine even if it's a little awkward.

Re: Show HN: ORY Editor – A rich editor for the browser, built with React and Redux

#73

Post by Vinnl »

arekkas wrote: post #67
ctoth wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does not appear to work at all with my screen reader. Accessibility as afterthought, as always. I used to look forward to trying to help people fix their stuff to be accessible, but now I'm just tired of every single fucking thing somebody creates being broken for me because everything is a complete heaping pile of inaccessible garbage and nobody even thinks about accessibility. It's not like there aren't thousa…

It doesn't work with your screen reader because the site is rendered after the initial page load. The content is not prerendered. However, the technology allows prerendering, so it actually works with screen readers. Some pieces might need improvement (e.g. missing alt tag on images at the moment). By the way, blind students use the education platform, and they are really happy that such an amazing, ad-free platform…

As far as I know screenreaders can handle dynamic rendering just fine. Perhaps you just need to mark it as a live region? https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/A...

Re: Show HN: ORY Editor – A rich editor for the browser, built with React and Redux

#74

Post by ctoth »

ythn wrote: post #71
ctoth wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does not appear to work at all with my screen reader. Accessibility as afterthought, as always. I used to look forward to trying to help people fix their stuff to be accessible, but now I'm just tired of every single fucking thing somebody creates being broken for me because everything is a complete heaping pile of inaccessible garbage and nobody even thinks about accessibility. It's not like there aren't thousa…

> Accessibility as afterthought, as always. You are in a minority. Minorities are always an afterthought. It's hard meeting the needs of every single minority - there are so many with many diverse needs.

Yes, being in the small group that wants people to actually use proper accessible markup as WCAG indicates does put me in a minority, it's true.

However, this concept that there are a lot of minorities so obviously we can't cover all the bases seems a little silly. Do people of color need different markup? Do women require somebody adds special javascript libraries so they can access the content? Making content accessible to a screen reader is part of our job as web developers. Just like the site isn't done until it renders in IE 11, it's not done until it reads with NVDA. In fact, often times people can install an alternative browser, whereas it is currently impossible to install an alternative pair of eyeballs, so I would go so far as to advocate accessibility before heroic browser compatibility battles but obviously I'm biased here ;-)

Re: Show HN: ORY Editor – A rich editor for the browser, built with React and Redux

#75

Post by ythn »

ctoth wrote: post #74
ythn wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Accessibility as afterthought, as always. You are in a minority. Minorities are always an afterthought. It's hard meeting the needs of every single minority - there are so many with many diverse needs.

Yes, being in the small group that wants people to actually use proper accessible markup as WCAG indicates does put me in a minority, it's true. However, this concept that there are a lot of minorities so obviously we can't cover all the bases seems a little silly. Do people of color need different markup? Do women require somebody adds special javascript libraries so they can access the content? Making content acces…

Well, I wasn't referring to just websites. Any software you make is probably going to have some kind of accessibility issues. For example, does your app have color cues for anything? Colorblind people may have an issue with that and so you need to take that into consideration and make the app colorblind friendly as well. It's virtually impossible de-conflicting all the types of colorblindness, so usually people just use icons to tag things instead of colors. This is even more important for things like games where colors indicate critical functions (hence why games sometimes have "colorblind mode")

Re: Show HN: ORY Editor – A rich editor for the browser, built with React and Redux

#76

Post by chachra »

hitekker wrote: post #28

I think this looks great for CMS websites: where a user wishes to build an entire page in a web GUI. For composing text in blocks on existing pages, like comments or posts, you would need a lighter-weight solution. SlateJS ( https://github.com/ianstormtaylor/slate ) fits that purpose for me exceedingly well, more than DraftJS, Quill and others, since it doesn't treat XML/HTML as a second-class citizen. The levels of…

Agreed. I like the simplicity of http://megadraft.io/ (built on draft.js).

Re: Show HN: ORY Editor – A rich editor for the browser, built with React and Redux

#77

Post by btown »

devrandomguy wrote: post #58
arekkas wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are working on (1), and make it possible to include it in non-react environments. However, there are still some dependencies required (such as react). So yes, this is not perfect at the moment. We're actually not confident with AGPLv3. We might change it to a more permissive license if it prevents people from adopting the technology. Feel free to create an issue on GitHub and we'll discuss it!

+1 for keeping the [A]GPL. As I understand it, the CRUD service that backs this would be separate software, which only communicates with this editor through an API, so it would not be affected by ORY's license. If ORY was a full stack content editing service, rather than just a client with a demo server, then you could still run it unmodified, making it easy to share the source (just link to the official repo). Your…

Some of your assumptions may not hold in this case: see my thoughts at https://github.com/ory/editor/issues/392

Re: Show HN: ORY Editor – A rich editor for the browser, built with React and Redux

#78

Post by btown »

arekkas wrote: post #33
ojosilva wrote: post #31

Looks and works great, but there are 2 limitations I think would prevent it from using it in our stack: 1) It cannot be easily embedded, ie. as a field in a form. Apparently it's meant (UI-wise at least) as a full-screen editor and has lots of dependencies of its own, including React. 2) AGPLv3 license is a killer. Means that any work that links to the library should be opensourced. Despite some people interpreting i…

We are working on (1), and make it possible to include it in non-react environments. However, there are still some dependencies required (such as react). So yes, this is not perfect at the moment. We're actually not confident with AGPLv3. We might change it to a more permissive license if it prevents people from adopting the technology. Feel free to create an issue on GitHub and we'll discuss it!

I did create an issue about the AGPL: https://github.com/ory/editor/issues/392 Quoting some of my thoughts from that thread here:

> I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice, but the choice of AGPL makes this utterly unusable as part of a commercial web application.

> Not only would it require all frontend code to be open sourced, but if it's used in-process in the application server as recommended for server-side rendering (for accessibility or SEO), all backend code for that application process would need to be open sourced as well.

...

> If you want the largest usage (and, by extension, upstream contributions), I'd encourage a license like Apache, BSD, or MIT. React itself is licensed under the BSD 3-clause license to sidestep many of these issues! The ecosystem nowadays is such that the default is to fork on Github anyways and send pull requests upstream, so that the application can benefit from continuous upstream bugfixes and just use the mainline NPM version without needing to maintain a fork. There are so many incentives to contribute that I think many open source projects lose more than they gain by trying to formalize contractual obligations.

Re: Show HN: ORY Editor – A rich editor for the browser, built with React and Redux

#79

Post by underdown »

ctoth wrote: post #61
arekkas wrote: post #20

The high CPU and memory usage was due to a large gif which was included two times. This gif accidentally was 1280p with 20fps and was about 40mb large. For some reason, the resizer did not properly work. Anyways, the gif is now removed. I hope the performance gets much better now. The CPU fans on macbooks going up where probably due to a lack of a dedicated graphics card. This happened to me with my macbook and large…

This does not appear to work at all with my screen reader. Accessibility as afterthought, as always. I used to look forward to trying to help people fix their stuff to be accessible, but now I'm just tired of every single fucking thing somebody creates being broken for me because everything is a complete heaping pile of inaccessible garbage and nobody even thinks about accessibility. It's not like there aren't thousa…

So I take it you've never shipped an MVP?

Re: Show HN: ORY Editor – A rich editor for the browser, built with React and Redux

#80

Post by Operyl »

ctoth wrote: post #72
ctoth wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it seems improbable to get a11y into an expansive CLI application Why? I used to use make menuconfig back in 2000--why should it not work now? 3d game? This I'll grant you. Some experiences are just not replicatable for the blind, though if you're interested in this at all check out the weird and wonderful world of audiogames and 3d audio with HRTF. An editor? Even a visual editor? Is not one of these experiences.…

I don't really understand your question. Mark what up, a command line interface? They don't really have markup. If I'm trying to read a lot of data in a CLI, the output of top, for instance, I need to read by line with the screen reader fixed to a given column offset but it works fine even if it's a little awkward.

I guess I meant that in the case of HTML you usually mark things up with aria tags and what have you. Not that there was anything like that in CLI land.
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