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What was Syria like before the war

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101–110 of 213 posts

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#101
post #91
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sigh, it seems so surreal now that the Arab Spring was once cheered on by the whole world. Edit: word

Too many people believe in the movie version of the American revolution.

God I agree, can you imagine how Ethan Allen would be covered today? I don't know enough to have a side in the Syria conflict, but man, the Green Mountain Boys weren't so far off from a lot of modern non-state actors.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#102
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fairly well established that intelligence agencies have active "social media" operations, and that there's paid distributors of "fake news" about. Establishing any particular account as a paid troll is almost impossible, although the moderators might be able to infer things from the login IP addresses if their opsec is bad.

How is it established? What proof of any kind do you have that people are being paid to troll in our corner of the internet? Even if agencies had a presence on social media, what advantage do they having coming to HN and trying to convince a bunch of computer nerds that life was better in Syria under Assad?

NSA and GCHQ document leaks outlining their shilling operations.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#103
post #67
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sigh, it seems so surreal now that the Arab Spring was once cheered on by the whole world. Edit: word

The less Arab revolutions were stomped on, the more favorable was the outcome. The progression from Tunisa through Egypt and Lybia to Syria is quite evident. What's really surreal is so many people in the (still relatively free) West denying basic agency to their fellow human beings in the Middle East.

> so many people in the (still relatively free) West denying basic agency to their fellow human beings

Because there's a lot of cynicism with charities and foreign aid. There is an active campaign here in Britain to reduce the latter and anecdotally, I have friends and relatives who refuse to donate to aid agencies because they believe that the whole thing is a sham.

Sure there's bureaucracy, but most of them are genuinely hardworking and already operating on shoestring budgets...

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#104

Refugee stats: 3.6 Women and Children 1.6 Men God, I hate stats like these, why is it so hard to break up men, women and children separately to give more insight. Women are not the same as children. Or is google trying to tell us that woman are basically, well, children?

Maybe because of traditions like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_children_first

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#105
post #92
post #80

Meta-commentary: This is one of the more fascinating threads I have seen on HN. It seems to parallel many of the problems with political discourse in the world today - maybe it's always been like this, but I'm not old enough to know. I would break down the comments into several types: 1) conspiracy theorists who believe in some secret cult that is unilaterally organizing everything 2) trolls - state sponsored or othe…

Nice of you to label everyone who preferes a more isolationist approach to global policy as a "troll" How open-minded of you.

[deleted]

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#106
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assad eventually dies, probably of old age.

Current Assad is already the son of the previous dictator.

You can eventually "sublimate away" a hereditary ruling family; that's what lots of European countries have done. In some cases (like Pinochet or Franco), the ruling dictator simply accepts there is no point in continuing and just dies away without bestowing the country on his children.

People tend to forget that Middle-Eastern countries are all pretty young from an institutional perspective. Before the mid-XX century they did not exist in forms resembling the current ones. Ottoman collapse, Arab consolidation and general decolonisation were fluid processes that sprung (or were forced to spring) very complex entities with all sorts of growing pains.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#107
post #80

Meta-commentary: This is one of the more fascinating threads I have seen on HN. It seems to parallel many of the problems with political discourse in the world today - maybe it's always been like this, but I'm not old enough to know. I would break down the comments into several types: 1) conspiracy theorists who believe in some secret cult that is unilaterally organizing everything 2) trolls - state sponsored or othe…

It's not easy, but it's pretty simple. Longer attention spans, and not treating all opinions as equally reasoned and/or valid. We are in the midst of a terrible anti-intellectualistic & dirt-kicking-religious-fundamentalism conundrum globally. Education is the only atmosphere where growth is the only goal - every human enterprise involves winning and losing, more or less.

In the context of Education, the goal is self-reflexive when employed properly - as in, discussion and growth and learning for their own sake, not because some asshole in the Federal Government wants every kid from Baton Rouge and Seattle and San Diego to be able to pass a highly sterile, multiple-choice "NCLB" type test. There's a lot of stuff to un-screw up.

A person like Betsy DeVos is akin to Emperor Nero's Horse.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#108
post #80

Meta-commentary: This is one of the more fascinating threads I have seen on HN. It seems to parallel many of the problems with political discourse in the world today - maybe it's always been like this, but I'm not old enough to know. I would break down the comments into several types: 1) conspiracy theorists who believe in some secret cult that is unilaterally organizing everything 2) trolls - state sponsored or othe…

What I find interesting about the Syrian issue is that it is becoming increasingly clear that diplomacy, the UN, media exposure etc is failing. Despite this "humanitarian crisis" (which I fully agree is reaching crisis levels), my impression is that almost all the media outlets and pundits are ignoring the obvious solution to this problem... unilateral US military intervention (and before we go there... keep in mind that if that doesnt solve the problem, nothing can).

So the question I have for the parent is as follows: how far do things have to deteriorate before military intervention is the only viable and recommended solution?

It is 100% within the means of the United States to end this situation.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#109
post #64
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose this kind of question can only be answered in hindsight. If indeed there is a transition to a free, stable democracy, I suppose we could argue that what happened was ultimately worth it. But I don't know if such a thing is likely to happen. It seems quite possible to me that all this turmoil will lead to another local maximum that isn't much better, and perhaps even worse, than the previous one.

So basically they're eternally condemned to live in either a failed state or a harsh dictatorship?

Afghanistan used to be a normal country in the 70s by Middle Eastern standard. Not too different from Iran, Iraq, or Syria of those days.

It hasn't recovered for over 40 years.

Iraq doesn't seem like it will recover any time soon.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#110
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, never in the history of mankind has anyone protested without being paid by George Soros, right?

I'm not sure in what sense your answer is a constructive contribution. There is a long history of engineering 'grassroots movements' toward overthrowing governments. All powers have been engaging in this practise, and you can find how-to manuals -- I recommend reading some, it's highly enlightening. For example many of the de-colonialisation movements in the second part of the 20th century were actively run by the So…

And even before that. A few examples:

- Lenin famously had to ride a train through half of Europe to get back into Russia and stir up trouble. The involved countries knew very well who he was and what he was going to do (he was under surveillance, like most activists before and since), but they let him pass in order to help destabilise a neighbouring power.

- Italian unification was aided by the British, which controlled most of the Mediterranean at the time. Whenever this or that bunch of "united Italy" guerrilla left a port directed to the country, the British would help them by providing cover and supplies. This was done in order to create new headaches for France and Austria, then the dominant powers in fractured Italy.

- The Spanish civil war was heavily influenced by foreign powers, with Germany and Italy instigating and materially supporting Franco, the USSR helping the Republic, and everyone else providing covert support for this or that faction.

Etc etc.

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