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What was Syria like before the war

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Re: What was Syria like before the war

#71

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

candiodari wrote: post #5
RandVal30141 wrote: post #4

"I wish there were more definite sources detailing what the actual conflict is about. " The death of Hamza Khateeb[1] comes to mind. Political and civil unrest was already underway, but the open violence against civilians including children sent Syria down a path. The government butchered that child among others caught for demonstrations or showing dissent. "The attitude of the government against the people of Syria…

> The death of Hamza Khateeb Ok, but how do you go from that to islamic state ? And frankly, how does a protest like that get organised in the first place by the locals ? > regular chemical weapons attacks by the regime Maybe I'm misinformed, but I seem to only recall that the government was accused of doing this once. This is neither regular, nor was it the cause of the conflict.

> Ok, but how do you go from that to islamic state ?

How did Trump win the election?

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#72

Post by OliverJones »

I lived in Aleppo with my family 1962-1964. My dad was a US consul at the time. It's heartbreaking to see those pictures of that great city trashed. Half a century is a long time in the history of an American city, but the twinking of an eye in the history of Aleppo.

The people of the city were incredibly supportive of us -- their guests -- in the aftermath of JFK's murder. Strangers on the street came up to us to express condolences.

There was violence back then; the pan-Arab movement of Egyptian president Gamal abdel-Nasser was stirring up nationalist fervor, pro and con. He was frightening and annoying Hafez al-Assad, the father of the present ruler, so government forces were cracking down on Nasser supporters.

But nothing like this.

A family of Syrian refugees lives in my town, and I'm proud to call them friends. Their eldest daughter is pulling straight As in high school. They get hassled sometimes by 'murican yahoos, which is stupid, but still better than being in the Jordanian refugee camp they came from.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#73

Post by RandVal30141 »

adsfqwop wrote: post #69
mpfundstein wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the Syrian government torture and mutilate a 13-year-old boy and then return the body/proof to the parents ? Same with the current gas-bombs. What is the rationale behind this besides being pure evil? Assad made great progress in Syria and is pushing back ISIS and Al-Nusra. There was no strategical need for dropping gas but still, he apparently did... why would he? Doesn't make sense to me...

It doesn't make any sense, unless you realize that the deep state wants to destabilize Syria and dethrone Assad by force. Then suddenly the narrative we're being offered starts making more sense. And I stress the word narrative, as in "story".

You sound insane.

"destabilize Syria"

The regime did a fine job of that. No need for some construct behind the scenes where all blame can be assigned.

"the narrative"

Yes amazing how people on the ground in Syria have these words to say. Shame people spent so many years denigrating them as some narrative made up by George Soros.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#74

Post by romanovcode »

Refugee stats:

3.6 Women and Children

1.6 Men

God, I hate stats like these, why is it so hard to break up men, women and children separately to give more insight. Women are not the same as children.

Or is google trying to tell us that woman are basically, well, children?

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#75

Post by wtvanhest »

romanovcode wrote: post #74

Refugee stats: 3.6 Women and Children 1.6 Men God, I hate stats like these, why is it so hard to break up men, women and children separately to give more insight. Women are not the same as children. Or is google trying to tell us that woman are basically, well, children?

I agree that women and children should be reported seperately, but there is a logical reason for the breakdown.

Men are much more likely to be warriors historically.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#77

Post by tyingq »

romanovcode wrote: post #74

Refugee stats: 3.6 Women and Children 1.6 Men God, I hate stats like these, why is it so hard to break up men, women and children separately to give more insight. Women are not the same as children. Or is google trying to tell us that woman are basically, well, children?

UNHCR has detailed stats, here: http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php

If you draw the line at age 18: Roughly, 27% male adults, 25.5% female adults, 47% children.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#78

Post by adsfqwop »

RandVal30141 wrote: post #73
adsfqwop wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't make any sense, unless you realize that the deep state wants to destabilize Syria and dethrone Assad by force. Then suddenly the narrative we're being offered starts making more sense. And I stress the word narrative, as in "story".

You sound insane. "destabilize Syria" The regime did a fine job of that. No need for some construct behind the scenes where all blame can be assigned. "the narrative" Yes amazing how people on the ground in Syria have these words to say. Shame people spent so many years denigrating them as some narrative made up by George Soros.

Sure, burying your head in the sand is a strategy too. Good for you.

Which people on the ground? You sound like you're getting your talking points from CNN.

How about a reporter who has personally visited Syria and Aleppo herself?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueyWGyddepw

You do not seem to be aware that there are terrorists operating in Syria that are funded by the west. Let's just start with that.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#79

Post by CydeWeys »

romanovcode wrote: post #74

Refugee stats: 3.6 Women and Children 1.6 Men God, I hate stats like these, why is it so hard to break up men, women and children separately to give more insight. Women are not the same as children. Or is google trying to tell us that woman are basically, well, children?

I think it says more about the society that the refugees are fleeing from. Imagine some hypothetical civil war in Florida with millions of refugees -- the American women would not be lumped in with the children.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#80

Post by peterlk »

Meta-commentary: This is one of the more fascinating threads I have seen on HN. It seems to parallel many of the problems with political discourse in the world today - maybe it's always been like this, but I'm not old enough to know.

I would break down the comments into several types:

1) conspiracy theorists who believe in some secret cult that is unilaterally organizing everything

2) trolls - state sponsored or otherwise pushing an anti-humanitarian cause. They are throwing chaff into the discussion to confuse and disorient and to detract from the real issues.

3) people with experience in these events trying desperately to be heard - these are the people meant to be drowned out by the trolls

4) alarmists - people with relatively little knowledge of the actual goings-on who insist that every minor event is the end of the world (or Syria). I'm not saying that Syria hasn't been decimated, but that it was (and is) a process not an event

5) the rest of everyone who is trying to make heads or tails of things and seems to fall into one of those camps.

So, to one of the brighter communities on the internet (that's you HN) I ask: how do we (humanity) convey a full, factual picture to one another so that we may use those facts in conjunction with our values to agree or disagree with one another?

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