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What was Syria like before the war

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Re: What was Syria like before the war

#61

Post by mpfundstein »

RandVal30141 wrote: post #4

"I wish there were more definite sources detailing what the actual conflict is about. " The death of Hamza Khateeb[1] comes to mind. Political and civil unrest was already underway, but the open violence against civilians including children sent Syria down a path. The government butchered that child among others caught for demonstrations or showing dissent. "The attitude of the government against the people of Syria…

Why would the Syrian government torture and mutilate a 13-year-old boy and then return the body/proof to the parents?

Same with the current gas-bombs. What is the rationale behind this besides being pure evil? Assad made great progress in Syria and is pushing back ISIS and Al-Nusra. There was no strategical need for dropping gas but still, he apparently did... why would he?

Doesn't make sense to me...

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#62

Post by ido »

thriftwy wrote: post #40
ido wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's really possible to argue the country is in any way better off than it was before the insurrection. The question is then, what would have been a better solution? Surely as long as Assad was ruling they were stuck (at best) at a local maximum and would have never transitioned to a free democracy without overthrowing the current government.

But aren't they stuck in abyss now? If that's the choice, maybe it wasn't a good plan after all.

The current situation is not a stable state, at some point one of the combating sides will win or the country will split into several independent states.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#63

Post by ido »

mafribe wrote: post #46
ido wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's really possible to argue the country is in any way better off than it was before the insurrection. The question is then, what would have been a better solution? Surely as long as Assad was ruling they were stuck (at best) at a local maximum and would have never transitioned to a free democracy without overthrowing the current government.

as long as Assad was ruling Assad's secular dictatorship is massively preferable to ISIS rule, especially to the 25% of the Syrian population that are non-Sunni.

I agree, but that wasn't my question - can Syria have something better than Assad eventually, and how do you get to it without overthrowing Assad?

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#64

Post by ido »

mercer wrote: post #57
ido wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's really possible to argue the country is in any way better off than it was before the insurrection. The question is then, what would have been a better solution? Surely as long as Assad was ruling they were stuck (at best) at a local maximum and would have never transitioned to a free democracy without overthrowing the current government.

I suppose this kind of question can only be answered in hindsight. If indeed there is a transition to a free, stable democracy, I suppose we could argue that what happened was ultimately worth it. But I don't know if such a thing is likely to happen. It seems quite possible to me that all this turmoil will lead to another local maximum that isn't much better, and perhaps even worse, than the previous one.

So basically they're eternally condemned to live in either a failed state or a harsh dictatorship?

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#65

Post by rospaya »

mafribe wrote: post #43
netsharc wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I have followed it that closely, but of course it's not a black vs white conflict, more like several factions wanting to win power/suppress their enemies. I think it started as a demonstration against the corrupt Assad that turned violent when his army started shooting. The "rebels" picked up arms and probably brutally kills pro-government soldiers/citizens, so they are not saints either. Meanwhile ISIS take…

started as a demonstration against the corrupt Assad It's unlikely that this was spontaneous, and most likely the first public result of a planned and well-funded regime-change operation.

There's no conclusive proof it wasn't spontaneous and in both cases it was legitimate.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#66

Post by thriftwy »

ido wrote: post #62
thriftwy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But aren't they stuck in abyss now? If that's the choice, maybe it wasn't a good plan after all.

The current situation is not a stable state, at some point one of the combating sides will win or the country will split into several independent states.

I don't think it will ever recover to pre-war levels. Not in our time.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#67

Post by varjag »

jansho wrote: post #52
mafribe wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as long as Assad was ruling Assad's secular dictatorship is massively preferable to ISIS rule, especially to the 25% of the Syrian population that are non-Sunni.

Sigh, it seems so surreal now that the Arab Spring was once cheered on by the whole world. Edit: word

The less Arab revolutions were stomped on, the more favorable was the outcome. The progression from Tunisa through Egypt and Lybia to Syria is quite evident.

What's really surreal is so many people in the (still relatively free) West denying basic agency to their fellow human beings in the Middle East.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#68

Post by RandVal30141 »

Phil_Latio wrote: post #42
matt4077 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She posted on Twitter: > Why would they bomb us and kill innocent people everyday? > - Bana So I doubt that being "exploited" by the evil UN anti-warmongerers is of particular concern to her. I'd even guess she would want to help to stop this, and prevent further atrocities of this magnitude. You've really gotten away with the wrong lessons from Wag the Dog if you consider this exploitative. The problem in WtD was th…

Well I mean this, and it's just the info you find on wikipedia, there is more: > Observers have questioned whether Bana understands the concepts that she tweets about. She is a seven-year-old child who does not speak English. A journalist for The New Yorker noted that her "video statements often have a scripted quality, as if she is being coached by her mother to communicate her thoughts in a language that she is onl…

""Bana" is a media campaign."

A child.

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#69

Post by adsfqwop »

mpfundstein wrote: post #61
RandVal30141 wrote: post #4

"I wish there were more definite sources detailing what the actual conflict is about. " The death of Hamza Khateeb[1] comes to mind. Political and civil unrest was already underway, but the open violence against civilians including children sent Syria down a path. The government butchered that child among others caught for demonstrations or showing dissent. "The attitude of the government against the people of Syria…

Why would the Syrian government torture and mutilate a 13-year-old boy and then return the body/proof to the parents ? Same with the current gas-bombs. What is the rationale behind this besides being pure evil? Assad made great progress in Syria and is pushing back ISIS and Al-Nusra. There was no strategical need for dropping gas but still, he apparently did... why would he? Doesn't make sense to me...

It doesn't make any sense, unless you realize that the deep state wants to destabilize Syria and dethrone Assad by force.

Then suddenly the narrative we're being offered starts making more sense. And I stress the word narrative, as in "story".

Re: What was Syria like before the war

#70

Post by LostInTheWoods2 »

ido wrote: post #63
mafribe wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as long as Assad was ruling Assad's secular dictatorship is massively preferable to ISIS rule, especially to the 25% of the Syrian population that are non-Sunni.

I agree, but that wasn't my question - can Syria have something better than Assad eventually, and how do you get to it without overthrowing Assad?

Assad eventually dies, probably of old age.
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