Get your loved ones off Facebook • Hacker News Board

Re: Get your loved ones off Facebook

#181

Post by haggy » Mon, May 22, 2017, 9:44 PM UTC

benchaney wrote: post #61

haggy wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say "I am sensitive to privacy and secrecy. I will fight for it every chance I get" but then contradict with "I willingly share my life on facebook and enjoy the content shared with me". That's the problem. The government has never had a tool like this before and because of the social graph that facebook created, will likely not have another one like it anytime soon. Unfortunately for the average user (and even v…

> You say "I am sensitive to privacy and secrecy. I will fight for it every chance I get" but then contradict with "I willingly share my life on facebook and enjoy the content shared with me". This is not a contradiction. Someone with privacy has the right to decide what they do and don't want to share publicly. Like you, I am concerned by how Facebook is used, and some of its societal implications, but this sort of…

> This is not a contradiction. Someone with privacy has the right to decide what they do and don't want to share publicly. Like you, I am concerned by how Facebook is used, and some of its societal implications, but this sort of extremist attitude helps nothing.

What you call an "extremist attitude" I call "info security common sense". Companies like Facebook are well known to lull their users into a false sense of being in a "safe, governed social utopia" all while profiting from vast amounts of data both explicitly provided by users and implicitly provided through data analysis. Anyone even remotely close to fields like infosec, cyber security, or data engineering know that Facebook is quickly becoming a giant spider web for its users. While I agree with you that an extremist attitude is not helpful, it's come to a point where I just know too much about the background of companies like Facebook to simply ignore these issues.

Re: Get your loved ones off Facebook

#182

Post by yomly » Mon, May 22, 2017, 9:46 PM UTC

Fezzik wrote: post #138

joshstrange wrote: post #128

It won't be a popular opinion here but here it goes: Well if it all goes to hell we will all be in the same handbasket. I'm simply not willing to cut people out of my life and miss out on things that are important to me because my data is mined and might be used against me. All these distributed platforms are a joke, no really they are technically cool but no one I care about is on them. Maybe if your entire social c…

But what's the advantage of Facebook over email and/or texting? I feel like for anything other than wasting time Facebook is sluggish compared to either. If you're a Facebook user you have a cellphone and/or a computer, and can do everything Facebook does: share pictures, plan events, check-in with friends, family, and groups of people. And not share data* or be peppered with garbage advertisements. * I personally pa…

Functionally you can achieve the same outcome using any one of the main methods of communication - a short email, a black snapchat, a tweet, an SMS and a Facebook post can all achieve the same thing (provided the message is short enough, or you can be bothered to chain them in the case of Twitter/Snapchat).

That said, all the different apps have a very different social context to them - how I meet someone and the intention of what I want to say to them will dictate which medium I will choose. Indeed even the expected response time will be different.

An email is a comparatively formal means of communication - I would expect the longest response time and would typically choose this for someone I either didn't know so well or was opting for a more official tone.

A Facebook message is quite informal so I would opt for this if I met someone under quite casual circumstances and/or I wanted to downplay the nature of my message.

Whatsapp is quite quick and fast to the point so I would use this for the fastest response time.

SMS has started to feel weirdly distant now, given that almost everyone is on alternative mediums, I find SMS to be quite the oddball for communication.

YMMV these are just my personal findings...

Re: Get your loved ones off Facebook

#183

Post by marricks » Mon, May 22, 2017, 9:49 PM UTC

joshstrange wrote: post #128

It won't be a popular opinion here but here it goes: Well if it all goes to hell we will all be in the same handbasket. I'm simply not willing to cut people out of my life and miss out on things that are important to me because my data is mined and might be used against me. All these distributed platforms are a joke, no really they are technically cool but no one I care about is on them. Maybe if your entire social c…

One of the things that got me to leave was how crappy facebook has gotten for actual communication. This part of the post really resonated with me

> If you’ve ever had that conversation, you’ve noticed that there’s a big disconnect between your expectations when you communicate on Facebook and what really happens. Basically, Facebook filters out your posts based on whether or not people will use Facebook more if they don’t see it.

Too often I'd want to share or talk about something and radio silence. Checked with friends and no one saw it. Putting aside caring about privacy, why put effort into a system that over time is more and more geared to peddling crap to you and your friends, and gets in the way of actual communication.

Re: Get your loved ones off Facebook

#184

Post by amadeusw » Mon, May 22, 2017, 9:56 PM UTC

slowmovintarget wrote: post #179

amadeusw wrote: post #177

If I delete my Facebook account but keep using WhatsApp, do I limit amount of collected data? Is this a viable strategy or do I need to remove WhatsApp as well?

As a related article mentions, if you use any Facebook-connected application in the 14-day working-really-hard-on-that-deleting-thing period, then Facebook cancels the account deletion process. Given that Facebook owns WhatsApp, you're likely to face the same problems down the road, if they aren't already doing those things the article has a problem with. ... Yeah, so here's a blurb from the WhatsApp ToS: Third-Party…

The ToS is a good find, thanks! Perhaps I'll need to stop using WhatsApp for the 14 days, plus a few more days for a good measure.

Re: Get your loved ones off Facebook

#185

Post by kowdermeister » Mon, May 22, 2017, 9:59 PM UTC

balls187 wrote: post #88

shurcooL wrote: post #26

For me, these are the biggest concerns that motivate me to consider deleting my account (which I don't use actively, only occasionally): - Facebooks creates false endorsements for products from you to your friends without revealing this to you. - Facebook filters out your posts based on whether or not people will use Facebook more if they don’t see it. I don't mind/can put up with the rest, but those two things reall…

You can't delete your account. You can disable it, and the moment you log back it, it's as if you have never left.

You definitely can:

https://www.facebook.com/help/250563911970368?helpref=hc_glo...

There used to be a two week period where it worked as you described, not sure if it's still in place.

Re: Get your loved ones off Facebook

#186

Post by not_that_noob » Mon, May 22, 2017, 10:00 PM UTC

One of the more worrisome aspects of the FB is how it was used by the Russian trolls to influence the presidential election.

http://mashable.com/2017/03/30/russian-trolls-fake-news/#LDb...

It's not exactly Facebook that is doing it, it's that a set of smart external actors can use the data from fb advertising services to spread propaganda with unprecedented granularity. And to make it even scarier, there's no public record of what was shown to whom, and it can be run by smart actors in a completely anonymous fashion.

I feel we have gotten to a point where there's a direct threat to the fundamental concept of a free democracy from the fb platform.

Re: Get your loved ones off Facebook

#187

Post by karllager » Mon, May 22, 2017, 10:22 PM UTC

joshstrange wrote: post #128

It won't be a popular opinion here but here it goes: Well if it all goes to hell we will all be in the same handbasket. I'm simply not willing to cut people out of my life and miss out on things that are important to me because my data is mined and might be used against me. All these distributed platforms are a joke, no really they are technically cool but no one I care about is on them. Maybe if your entire social c…

> Like it or not there is a social stigma around NOT having a FB account.

Yes of course there is. Please do not take it personal, but the problem described in the article still exists, even if most people don't care. In Germany in the last century, most people cheered for a mass-murdering psychopath. Those who did not cheer, were surely stigmatised - right up to annihilation. Did this invalidate the stigmatised standpoint? On the contrary.

Re: Get your loved ones off Facebook

#188

Post by codingdave » Mon, May 22, 2017, 10:23 PM UTC

bargl wrote: post #27

As for me, Facebook creates an emotional connection unlike any other service out there. I get to see my friends kids grow up, comfort lost friends when they lose a parent, share with my family when something great has happened. It's absolutely amazing and there's nothing out there that comes close to its reach. If Facebook were suddenly gone tomorrow, I would feel devastated (so many memories of my kids, deceased fat…

This comment seems to be an exact copy of the last 2 lines of this comment --> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14395046

Why?

Re: Get your loved ones off Facebook

#189

Post by baloneyman » Mon, May 22, 2017, 10:25 PM UTC

squeaky-clean wrote: post #144

hammock wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you misinterpreted the analogy. Bathroom door = privacy. Bathroom activities = secrets.

There are no secrets in the bathroom analogy. We all know what you're doing in there (or have a 50% chance at guessing). But you still want privacy.

The point they are trying to prove is that there is no way of knowing what happens in the bathroom. It is theoretically equivalent to secrecy

Re: Get your loved ones off Facebook

#190

Post by hammock » Mon, May 22, 2017, 10:25 PM UTC

squeaky-clean wrote: post #144

hammock wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you misinterpreted the analogy. Bathroom door = privacy. Bathroom activities = secrets.

There are no secrets in the bathroom analogy. We all know what you're doing in there (or have a 50% chance at guessing). But you still want privacy.

Nobody gets it...

He said you can have privacy without secrets. But suppose there exists a room with a door where you don't know what someone is doing behind it. The activity behind the door is the secret. The door is still representing privacy (not secrecy). That was the point of the analogy.