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Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

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Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#131

Post by antaviana »

zerr wrote: post #7

The city is good but I can't get how people live there with such low salaries (20K-45K). This is in tech. I don't want to think about what people make in other areas (humanities?)...

The salaries job figures do not include medical insurance and unemployement insurance, which is paid directly by the employer and normally a value in the range on 10-15K.

Not sure why these costs are sort of concealed to employees n Spain and disclosed as gross salary in other cointries.

Perhaps Spanish Government wants to give the sense they are doing a lot for people in terms of Healthcare and unemployement without them knowing where the money really comes from and overall how much money they are paying for these benefits.

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#132

Post by zerr »

antaviana wrote: post #131
zerr wrote: post #7

The city is good but I can't get how people live there with such low salaries (20K-45K). This is in tech. I don't want to think about what people make in other areas (humanities?)...

The salaries job figures do not include medical insurance and unemployement insurance, which is paid directly by the employer and normally a value in the range on 10-15K. Not sure why these costs are sort of concealed to employees n Spain and disclosed as gross salary in other cointries. Perhaps Spanish Government wants to give the sense they are doing a lot for people in terms of Healthcare and unemployement without…

But from those 20K-45K you also pay income tax 30% (or 40%?), right?

As for healthcare, at least in Barcelona, if it is not really urgent, you have to wait a month to actually gat that free visit to a doctor. Because of this, people go to paid/private doctor anyway.

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#133

Post by ianleighton »

mannigfaltig wrote: post #44

Kinda related: What about Portugal? What is the tech scene like in Porto?

Only here as a nomad, but I find Lisbon and Porto to be way nicer than Barcelona. Way more green space, way less pollution. People are incredibly nice and speak English and French way better than in Spain (they sub instead of dub their tv/movies). Same focus on tourism and more nascent tech scene but there are a decent number of cafes to work from. Definitely on its way up, the city is big on supporting tech (eg Web Summit moving to Lisbon)

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#134

Post by faragon »

majormajor wrote: post #105
faragon wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, universal medical coverage in Spain covers you and all your family members, without additional cost. E.g. if you're married and having 4 kids, all 6 people would be 100% covered by the public health insurance. E.g. If you have a child with problems requiring medical treatments costing 2 millions of USD (e.g. unlimited surgeries, unlimited hospital time, unlimited treatment), it would be covered.

My question: what happens if you lose your job as a foreign worker (say, too sick to keep working)? The family scenarios are all also covered by my US employee-based coverage, with a small-compared-to-the-salary-numbers out-of-pocket annual max, but in the US where you can get screwed is if you get too sick to work.

If you're salaried, and get too sick to work, that would be covered. I.e. you're not going to be kicked out of the country like it could happen in the USA. Think of Spain like soft-socialism capitalism (pretty much like most countries in the European Union), with massive worker protection. In case of not being able to work at all, you'll get a for-life pension and full health-care coverage until you die, even if it takes e.g. 50 years.

If you're a Eurozone citizen (not necessarily an E.U. member), you can enjoy that exactly like being a Spanish citizen. For corner cases, e.g. a Briton in the post-Brexit scenario (or someone from countries outside the EU, so you would also require a work visa), working with visa would have same protection as local citizens. In that regard, Spain is quite humanist. So please, talented people from the UK, USA, and from everywhere in the World, you're very welcome to come to Spain and help making this place better! :-)

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#135

Post by antaviana »

zerr wrote: post #132
antaviana wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The salaries job figures do not include medical insurance and unemployement insurance, which is paid directly by the employer and normally a value in the range on 10-15K. Not sure why these costs are sort of concealed to employees n Spain and disclosed as gross salary in other cointries. Perhaps Spanish Government wants to give the sense they are doing a lot for people in terms of Healthcare and unemployement without…

But from those 20K-45K you also pay income tax 30% (or 40%?), right? As for healthcare, at least in Barcelona, if it is not really urgent, you have to wait a month to actually gat that free visit to a doctor. Because of this, people go to paid/private doctor anyway.

At 20K you still need to pay around 10-15% of average income tax. At 40K probaby average income is around 20%. Not to be confused with marginal income tax, which is higher (probably around 25% and 30% respectively).

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#136

Post by antaviana »

zerr wrote: post #132
antaviana wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The salaries job figures do not include medical insurance and unemployement insurance, which is paid directly by the employer and normally a value in the range on 10-15K. Not sure why these costs are sort of concealed to employees n Spain and disclosed as gross salary in other cointries. Perhaps Spanish Government wants to give the sense they are doing a lot for people in terms of Healthcare and unemployement without…

But from those 20K-45K you also pay income tax 30% (or 40%?), right? As for healthcare, at least in Barcelona, if it is not really urgent, you have to wait a month to actually gat that free visit to a doctor. Because of this, people go to paid/private doctor anyway.

For seeing your dermatologist, private is a lot more convenient and quick to get rid of that itch.

If you have cancer or a serious disease, you go to the public one, even if you pay private. Not because of costs, but because there are better doctors in public than there are in private (strange but true).

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#137

Post by pvaldes »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #106
pvaldes wrote: post #2

> will likely involve a pay cut in absolute terms. In absolute terms, but take in mind that life in Spain can be much less expensive than living in Berlin or Paris. It depends on the area and the job. > I'm currently functional in Spanish but I have a long way to go until fluency. That's one of my goals in moving to Spain Madrid is the right option then. Has worst climate with more hot in summer and colder in winter,…

> Barcelona uses heavily Catalonian language for all: trafic signs, street posters, commerce, casual conversation, television, politics... all. I wouldn't discourage the OP like that. Most of Barcelona's huge immigrant population -- Romanian, Bulgarian, Pakistani, etc. -- never learns Catalan even after two decades living there. They manage perfectly fine without Catalan, and become proficient in Castilian instead. (…

> Romanian, Bulgarian, Pakistani, etc. -- never learns Catalan even after two decades living there. They manage perfectly fine without Catalan.

What type of jobs is expected for them?

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#138

Post by TurboHaskal »

pvaldes wrote: post #112
Anonnononon wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a small side note: saying health care is free is unrealistic. I pay 378 euros a month as an automono and I don't have paro. 4.5k a year for health insurance it better be a damn good one.

This is for health insurance, your taxes and also for your retirement pension. Being autonomo is a handicap, this is true, but you are your own boss, choose your working hours, clothes etc as you want, stop working "when you want" and are supposedly paid for extra hours, so not all is bad after all.

He's paying for a retirement pension, but not __his__ retirement pension.

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#139

Post by johnkoper »

Average tech salary for Barcelona is $45k/yearly

and for Madrid is around $60k/yearly:

https://jobsquery.it/map;bounds=%7B%22south%22%3A35.70766603...

Barcelona is really nice place to live and many developers live there and works remotely for UK or US startups where salaries are higher.

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#140

Post by mullsork »

kayoone wrote: post #128
francamps wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is all true. I really love Berlin and I consider it as much an option as Barcelona, or better. The amount of culture and stimulating things happening is incredible, plus the most liberal city and the most interesting tech scene in Europe (sorry London). The weather has the worst of NYC and the worst of London together though.

How long have you been here? I would be very surprised if the weather was considerably worse than NY and especially London. Current 7 day forecast looks pretty comparable :)

Summers here in Berlin are fantastic and probably have London beat. November-April are really depressing though and seems to take a big toll on everyone.
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