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Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

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Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#111

Post by posterboy »

pvaldes wrote: post #18
farresito wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding the language, I don't think Catalan is much of an issue, to be honest. If you talk in Spanish, you get an answer in Spanish. I would say that the climate and the city are well worth it, but I am of course biased, since I live in Barcelona.

> If you talk in Spanish, you get an answer in Spanish. This is not granted always. It depends on the people. The problem is that you are trying to learn spanish being inmersed at the same time in another similar language but with different orthographic and grammatical rules. And you see examples of the non-spanish version everywhere in your journey. Should you use a 'B' or a 'V' for that word?. Sounds the same but i…

so, is it "farcelona" in catalan?

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#112

Post by pvaldes »

Anonnononon wrote: post #104
fesja wrote: post #42

Disclaimer: I'm from Madrid and I live in Madrid right now. I've created 3 startups. I've spent monts or weeks working from San Francisco, New York, London and Barcelona. My companies have been invested by Atomico, Idinvest, PointNine, 500 Startups Many people ask me why I haven't moved permanently elsewhere. The answer is simple: quality of live. It's really hard to get the quality of life that we have in Spain (fre…

Just a small side note: saying health care is free is unrealistic. I pay 378 euros a month as an automono and I don't have paro. 4.5k a year for health insurance it better be a damn good one.

This is for health insurance, your taxes and also for your retirement pension. Being autonomo is a handicap, this is true, but you are your own boss, choose your working hours, clothes etc as you want, stop working "when you want" and are supposedly paid for extra hours, so not all is bad after all.

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#113

Post by posterboy »

faragon wrote: post #94
tehlike wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolute number wise, it's probably hard to beat the united states. Life quality wise, probably that changes. I make well above the ranges you were mentioning in the US, and still feel poor in comparison :) If your end game is to come back to USA after 2-3 years, it might be ok. But if you want to come back after 20-30 years, you might be losing on quite a lot of income. That assumes, you know, you want to work as an…

Also, universal medical coverage in Spain covers you and all your family members, without additional cost. E.g. if you're married and having 4 kids, all 6 people would be 100% covered by the public health insurance. E.g. If you have a child with problems requiring medical treatments costing 2 millions of USD (e.g. unlimited surgeries, unlimited hospital time, unlimited treatment), it would be covered.

but they probably have different ideas of problems that require medical treatment.

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#114

Post by faragon »

Anonnononon wrote: post #104
fesja wrote: post #42

Disclaimer: I'm from Madrid and I live in Madrid right now. I've created 3 startups. I've spent monts or weeks working from San Francisco, New York, London and Barcelona. My companies have been invested by Atomico, Idinvest, PointNine, 500 Startups Many people ask me why I haven't moved permanently elsewhere. The answer is simple: quality of live. It's really hard to get the quality of life that we have in Spain (fre…

Just a small side note: saying health care is free is unrealistic. I pay 378 euros a month as an automono and I don't have paro. 4.5k a year for health insurance it better be a damn good one.

Those 378 euros are not just for health care, but also for retirement.

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#115

Post by newlog »

johnnyforeigner wrote: post #110
newlog wrote: post #83

Hi there, Native from Catalonia here. Specifically, from Barcelona. First of all, let's talk about the language because I see many concerning posts in this thread. Anyone that tells you that you won't be able to speak Spanish in Barcelona is highly misinformed to say the least. I've worked with people from around the Spain without any issue, either for them or for me. No issue either when you visit the city, go to re…

The cost of flat rental has risen enormously here in the past 18 months. €800 will not get you a nice flat in the centre any more. If you're lucky, you may get something OK for about €950. Lunch menus at 10 euros are not that common anymore either. €12-14 is more usual. That said, it's the only city in the world I want to live in. I came here for a month in 2002 and never wanted to leave.

I can agree with that! It's been about two years since I looked for a flat in downtown, the same goes for lunch menus. I guess it will also depend on the area someone's looking for. But I can agree with those numbers.

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#116

Post by majormajor »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #107
majormajor wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My question: what happens if you lose your job as a foreign worker (say, too sick to keep working)? The family scenarios are all also covered by my US employee-based coverage, with a small-compared-to-the-salary-numbers out-of-pocket annual max, but in the US where you can get screwed is if you get too sick to work.

After you become a permanent resident in a EU country, you are no longer legally a "foreign worker" but rather state services treat you the same as any native-born person.

So googling says this is available to apply for after 5 years for Spain. Which suggests that the health care benefits may not be substantially better for quite some time after moving. Especially if moving from the US and giving up several tens of thousands of dollars per year in salary.

The last part of this sentence makes thing increasingly unclear-sounding:

> You have to prove that you have adequate financial resources to provide for you and your family (if applicable) – such as pension, scholarship or salary – and proof of public or private health insurance with a company authorised to operate in Spain.

Why would you need health insurance of your own if you'd end up on a state plan?

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#117

Post by sashakatsnelson »

I moved to Madrid this past December, and have thought about this question quite a bit. TL;DR: if you can work remotely and live in Spain you'll have a great life. Cost of living is 1/3-1/2 of SF or NYC, but incomes in tech are also 1/3 to 1/2.

More specifically: 1. Language in tech is not a big issue if you speak English. The work and the documentation will largely be in English and most of your young co-workers will speak English. 2. Remote work in Madrid is easy: there are lots of co-working places, rents are cheap, high-speed internet is relatively ubiquitous, and transportation to the U.S. and other parts of Europe is accessible. 3. Expect Madrid's infrastructure and startup scene to be about 5 years behind New York's in most ways. (Except access to capital - Madrid's way behind on that front). 4. In terms of local opportunities in Madrid: There are both Google and Amazon offices here, most of the big bank headquarters, and lots of freelance opportunities for local companies. Startups exist, but there aren't as many as you'd find in larger tech-hubs - founders don't tend to be very sophisticated, but there are lots of exceptions. 5. Job security is much more important and more expected for the Spanish - and it's a philosophy that's a bit rough for the startup community. It's harder to get a job because people don't quit and companies don't fire them as quickly AND it's harder to start something because each hire becomes a potentially crippling liability if you run into cash-flow problems. 6. The Spanish value work/life-balance. Siestas aren't as ubiquitous as they used to be, but there are lots ways that the Spanish still find to enjoy life - younger people with full-time jobs seem to have time and resources for hobbies, courses, and travel as well as plenty of time for family.

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#118

Post by pvaldes »

posterboy wrote: post #111
pvaldes wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you talk in Spanish, you get an answer in Spanish. This is not granted always. It depends on the people. The problem is that you are trying to learn spanish being inmersed at the same time in another similar language but with different orthographic and grammatical rules. And you see examples of the non-spanish version everywhere in your journey. Should you use a 'B' or a 'V' for that word?. Sounds the same but i…

so, is it "farcelona" in catalan?

Not, is Barcelona (or BCN, or Barna), but there are for example: alcova, almívar, gavardina, avortar, berruga, bivac, automobil, provar, rebentar, berbena, està, Xina, còrrer, etc, etc...

Unless you want to pass for the equivalent of a redneck when doing bussiness in lots of American countries and also in most spanish provinces, you should remember that those words must be written in spanish as: alcoba, almíbar, gabardina, abortar, verruga, vivac, automóvil, probar, reventar, verbena, está, China and correr (with word stress in the e this time), for example.

And would be good to remind also that sometimes the same concept is treated as masculine in Spanish but is feminine in Catalán (or the opposite case). Unlike english we use different articles for masculine and femenine words so this is important. Would be like using "she" when talking about our manager John.

And this is only a small part of the complete bobby trap list.

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#119

Post by ktzar »

One of the things you'll miss coming from countries like the US or the UK is proper houses for a reasonable price and at a reasonable commute time to the city center.

I'm a Spaniard living in the UK since 7 years ago and last year I considered moving back for personal reasons... When people say that housing in London is more expensive than in Madrid, check for actual two-story houses, with a private garden and garage, less than an hour away to anywhere in zone 1 by public transport... There are almost none, and the few are actually more expensive than in the UK.

Also, most of my Spanish friends get home around 8pm, since they work until 7. I'm so glad that I can be home with the kids at 5:45pm, and work remotely a couple days a week. That's very very rare in Spain, so beware.

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#120

Post by kilburn »

foldr wrote: post #95
newlog wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both Catalan and Spanish are the native language for people born in Catalonia. So most likely he wanted to be polite to them so they didn't feel bad for not being understood. I can tell you that you are highly misinformed if you think the preference is Catalan > English > Spanish :)

I got the same impression as a tourist too. People had no interest in speaking Spanish with me. Admittedly, my Spanish isn't great, but then people in the service industry in Barcelona don't necessarily speak amazing English either. I got the impression that they'd just rather communicate in English. I think you would have to speak Spanish very confidently and fluently to do things in Spanish without feeling like a b…

I'm Catalan, and I can see where you are coming from having worked as a waiter on my young days. Even if you speak broken english -which I did at the time- (a) you are there to serve, so you feel the obligation to be the one making the effort; and (b) you are usually more used to it than the visitor, because its part of your job anyway.

Hence, the usual result is that whenever you get spoken at in "broken" spanish you instinctively switch to english. Hell, I've went on to work on tech circles, and I still feel more comfortable speaking english with people who have a strong accent, even if they are germans/whatever and english is not their native language either!

With catalan it is a different situation. Anyone trying to speak catalan is not just trying to survive (they would do that in spanish!). They are actively trying to learn your native language, and it makes you and your culture feel respected by that person. In such a situation, you do your best to try to understand that person and help him improve further without being pedantic.

For a comparison, I've felt a similar "gratitude/respect reaction" when trying to say a few things in Gaelic while I was visiting northern Ireland.

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