It looks like an engineering flaw that lets outside water into the vault. “A lot of water went into the start of the tunnel and then it froze to ice, so it was like a glacier when you went in,” The fact that the water froze as it entered is good as that means the vault was still very cold. Likely this has an engineering fix. It would be nice if the article discussed if the vault temp was rising faster than expected and if/when passive cooling would fail in the future. This should be the real worry about vault failure. Sophisticated click bait, really.
Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
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Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#32Antarctica then?
What's the point of putting it somewhere maximally inaccessible with lots of ice? I was never that sold on the idea of putting it on a coastal island to begin with. I realize they want somewhere cold but a large mountain cave seems a better bet. That's where we put things that are meant to withstand nuclear war or similarly drastic upheavals. I don't blame the organizers for that, it's a lot harder to raise money for…
Granite Mountain would be just about perfect.
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the point of putting it somewhere maximally inaccessible with lots of ice? I was never that sold on the idea of putting it on a coastal island to begin with. I realize they want somewhere cold but a large mountain cave seems a better bet. That's where we put things that are meant to withstand nuclear war or similarly drastic upheavals. I don't blame the organizers for that, it's a lot harder to raise money for…
Placing the vault in a more populous and accessible region increases the possibility of, well, take your pick: theft, terrorism, political interference, collateral damage in the case of war, and so on.
Also, when I questioned the wisdom of putting it somewhere maximally inaccessible, I didn't necessarily mean they should have gone to the opposite extreme of putting it in the middle of a population center.
Nothing personal but this mode of argument seems both fallacious and unhelpful. I suggested an alternative (a somewhat accessible mountain cave) grounded in real-world experience (actual locations of military command centers). I don't understand why you chose to ignore one half of a short comment in order to produce a facile refutation of the other half.
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
Placing the vault in a more populous and accessible region increases the possibility of, well, take your pick: theft, terrorism, political interference, collateral damage in the case of war, and so on.
The existence of other considerations doesn't validate the poor choices that have already been made. I said at the time that putting a vault on a small island near sea level might not be a great plan given the wholly predictable rise in sea levels over the long term. It was a predictably stupid decision, and the only surprising part is that the stupidity became obvious so early rather than 50 or 75 years from now as…
The vault is 130m above sea level. It's not going to flood even if the arctic and antarctic both melt entirely.
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the point of putting it somewhere maximally inaccessible with lots of ice? I was never that sold on the idea of putting it on a coastal island to begin with. I realize they want somewhere cold but a large mountain cave seems a better bet. That's where we put things that are meant to withstand nuclear war or similarly drastic upheavals. I don't blame the organizers for that, it's a lot harder to raise money for…
Also, on any sane design, the entrance would be below the vault.
The entrance is V shaped, and is fitted with pumps at the bottom.
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#36"It was not in our plans to think that the permafrost would not be there and that it would experience extreme weather like that,” Sorry, but isn't that the entire point of a "doomsday vault". To protect from doomsday events, like extreme climate change?
It not really a doomsday vault despite the media trying to portrait it like that. It's really a seed storage for anyone who wants to store some seeds. I visited the vault a few years ago and was very disappointed to learn this. I had imagined some committee planning what we need to get back from Mad Max to normal. But it's really more like a bank lock box.
That makes a lot more sense, I'm glad you pointed that out. I was getting to thinking the Norwegians had gone crazy and started trying to store seeds to hedge against the apocalypse.
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
That and saving the seeds of flowering plants without preserving eggs of pollinating insects isn't very useful.
The vault against the story the media try to tell is not for mankind coming back from some apocalyptic event. It works like a bank vault. Anyone who wants can pay them money to keep sets safe. The common use case is for protecting seeds of crops your country cares about in case some pest kills all the crops or similar. Not for Mad Max.
Thanks, so then the first line is straight up fake news:
>"It was designed as an impregnable deep-freeze to protect the world’s most precious seeds from any global disaster and ensure humanity’s food supply forever."
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#38Ice coated satellite on a reL long ellipse.. Seed drop on no signal in capsules in exp time intervals
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
The vault against the story the media try to tell is not for mankind coming back from some apocalyptic event. It works like a bank vault. Anyone who wants can pay them money to keep sets safe. The common use case is for protecting seeds of crops your country cares about in case some pest kills all the crops or similar. Not for Mad Max.
Thanks, so then the first line is straight up fake news: >"It was designed as an impregnable deep-freeze to protect the world’s most precious seeds from any global disaster and ensure humanity’s food supply forever."
I think it's safe to assume that while it's not the immediate intention, it certainly can act as such in a pinch.
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#40"It was not in our plans to think that the permafrost would not be there and that it would experience extreme weather like that,” Sorry, but isn't that the entire point of a "doomsday vault". To protect from doomsday events, like extreme climate change?
It not really a doomsday vault despite the media trying to portrait it like that. It's really a seed storage for anyone who wants to store some seeds. I visited the vault a few years ago and was very disappointed to learn this. I had imagined some committee planning what we need to get back from Mad Max to normal. But it's really more like a bank lock box.
But..
“We have to find solutions. It is a big responsibility and we take it very seriously. We are doing this for the world.”
“This is supposed to last for eternity,” said Åsmund Asdal at the Nordic Genetic Resource Centre, which operates the seed vault.