Earlier quoted context omitted.
That and saving the seeds of flowering plants without preserving eggs of pollinating insects isn't very useful.
I remember hearing I think it was a Radiolab episode which talked of an instance where a lot pollination was done by humans, by hand, with paint brushes and pollen. It turned out that the humans were actually better at it than the insects, because they were more consistent. So the result was a crop that was larger than it would have been had insects done the pollinating. It's kind of a "waste" of human effort to do m…
Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
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Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#22Antarctica then?
What's the point of putting it somewhere maximally inaccessible with lots of ice? I was never that sold on the idea of putting it on a coastal island to begin with. I realize they want somewhere cold but a large mountain cave seems a better bet. That's where we put things that are meant to withstand nuclear war or similarly drastic upheavals. I don't blame the organizers for that, it's a lot harder to raise money for…
Placing the vault in a more populous and accessible region increases the possibility of, well, take your pick: theft, terrorism, political interference, collateral damage in the case of war, and so on.
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the point of putting it somewhere maximally inaccessible with lots of ice? I was never that sold on the idea of putting it on a coastal island to begin with. I realize they want somewhere cold but a large mountain cave seems a better bet. That's where we put things that are meant to withstand nuclear war or similarly drastic upheavals. I don't blame the organizers for that, it's a lot harder to raise money for…
Placing the vault in a more populous and accessible region increases the possibility of, well, take your pick: theft, terrorism, political interference, collateral damage in the case of war, and so on.
The existence of other considerations doesn't validate the poor choices that have already been made. I said at the time that putting a vault on a small island near sea level might not be a great plan given the wholly predictable rise in sea levels over the long term.
It was a predictably stupid decision, and the only surprising part is that the stupidity became obvious so early rather than 50 or 75 years from now as more conservative models of climate change suggested could be the case.
I am absolutely in favor of projects like this that are built to maximize survivability of ecosystems in the face of unpredictable change. But you are saying that all risks are equivalent over the long term and it's impossible to choose between them, which I think is an absurd copout.
The reality here is that there wasn't enough money or political will to invest in something more obviously permanent, so we ended up with a shitty system that has started to fail within a single decade, will now probably have to be decommissioned (because the problem is only likely to get worse), and we've got to start over. It's not a total write-off, much valuable work has been done, but it's plain that trying to cheap out on the location was a dreadful false economy.
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#24Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#25>"It was designed as an impregnable deep-freeze to protect the world’s most precious seeds from any global disaster and ensure humanity’s food supply forever. But the Global Seed Vault, buried in a mountain deep inside the Arctic circle, has been breached after global warming produced extraordinary temperatures over the winter, sending meltwater gushing into the entrance tunnel." This story makes the design/managemen…
Time for a backup vault on the other side of the arctic in Ellesmere Island. This time maybe they can tunnel an upward slope into a stable mountain so no moisture will be able to flow in, and moisture originating inside should (in theory) flow out.
Or fly them to the moon!
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#26>"It was designed as an impregnable deep-freeze to protect the world’s most precious seeds from any global disaster and ensure humanity’s food supply forever. But the Global Seed Vault, buried in a mountain deep inside the Arctic circle, has been breached after global warming produced extraordinary temperatures over the winter, sending meltwater gushing into the entrance tunnel." This story makes the design/managemen…
That and saving the seeds of flowering plants without preserving eggs of pollinating insects isn't very useful.
The vault against the story the media try to tell is not for mankind coming back from some apocalyptic event. It works like a bank vault. Anyone who wants can pay them money to keep sets safe. The common use case is for protecting seeds of crops your country cares about in case some pest kills all the crops or similar. Not for Mad Max.
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#27"It was not in our plans to think that the permafrost would not be there and that it would experience extreme weather like that,” Sorry, but isn't that the entire point of a "doomsday vault". To protect from doomsday events, like extreme climate change?
It not really a doomsday vault despite the media trying to portrait it like that. It's really a seed storage for anyone who wants to store some seeds.
I visited the vault a few years ago and was very disappointed to learn this. I had imagined some committee planning what we need to get back from Mad Max to normal. But it's really more like a bank lock box.
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#28If you'd like to see more about how the Svalbard Seed Vault works and how countries including North Korea have seeds stored there, Veritasium has a great video on the subject: https://youtu.be/2_OEsf-1qgY
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the point of putting it somewhere maximally inaccessible with lots of ice? I was never that sold on the idea of putting it on a coastal island to begin with. I realize they want somewhere cold but a large mountain cave seems a better bet. That's where we put things that are meant to withstand nuclear war or similarly drastic upheavals. I don't blame the organizers for that, it's a lot harder to raise money for…
Placing the vault in a more populous and accessible region increases the possibility of, well, take your pick: theft, terrorism, political interference, collateral damage in the case of war, and so on.
Case in point: Aleppo.
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#30[deleted]