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Ask HN: How can I do social good through programming?

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Re: Ask HN: How can I do social good through programming?

#301

Post by TeMPOraL »

nyargh wrote: post #269
TeMPOraL wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I have exactly the same question on my mind as OP, and I'm definitely not thinking about yet another bullshit mobile app that'll save the world.

NGOs are not simply biding their time waiting for the next Tech Messiah to come along and save the world. Their tech problems are terribly boring and mundane. We deal with this all the time. Well meaning techie comes along with a bunch of ideas, none of which are particularly compelling and all require a ton of work (on both sides). When we don't immediately do backflips, they disappear. Rinse, repeat.

It's good that you mention this and it's an important datapoint for OP's question. That said, I don't think OP gave any indication anywhere to dismiss them as fly-by-night techie seeking social status. There are people (myself included) honestly asking how they could maximize their positive impact on this world, especially using the skills they already have.

Re: Ask HN: How can I do social good through programming?

#302

Post by unclesaamm »

peacetreefrog wrote: post #188

Just read all the top line comments here. Interesting that no one had mentioned the one thing that has probably done the most to "better our chances as species" in the last few hundred years, and has helped hundreds of millions in India and China get out of backbreaking poverty and accumulate some wealth. And that is... Work hard, accumulate skills, and become better at your normal job. Even if you're not writing ope…

This is the most neoliberal thing I've ever read. No, doing nothing will not make the world a better place. And no, our mindless slide into capitalism-in-all-things is not actually good for most people. For one, see the Clinton Foundation's disastrous neoliberalization of Haiti (touted as a success because it "raised people out of poverty"): http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/clinton-found...

In fact, by working for a typical VC-fueled tech company, you're probably helping a few very rich people extract rent more efficiently from a greater number of people. Your best bet for social impact is to do the exact opposite -- get involved in left politics, find ways to show solidarity with people who are being hurt by the Uber-ization and Airbnb-ization of the world, and use your tech skills to counter those effects.

Re: Ask HN: How can I do social good through programming?

#303

Post by Mz »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #298
Mz wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people completely take the material blessings of capitalism for granted and totally believe capitalism is evil. It rarely dawns on them that their high quality of life and the luxury to fret about things like social good (instead of survival) is a direct result of so called capitalism.

Yes. But this is about as stupid an attitude as believing capitalism is a pure God-sent miracle and everything it does is only wonderful. The market economy brought us the age of unparalleled prosperity worldwide, but it also has serious problems worth addressing. One can talk about the drawbacks while at the same time being grateful for the positives. (Personally, I believe market economy has been much more benefici…

I'm sorry, but I said nothing about it being pure God-sent miracle. I find that to be a wild misinterpretation of my point.

Generally speaking, you need a certain level of material security to worry about more abstract things like social good -- or even sexual pleasure. Lots of stuff I have read indicates that people in wealthy countries have a great deal more sex and talk and think about it a great deal more than those struggling to get something to eat. It is something of a luxury good. Ironically, the complaints about being a member of the lonely hearts club is generally an indication that you already have some baseline amount of your needs met well enough to bother to notice what you lack in that regard. People who are poor or oppressed enough typically spend all their time worrying about resolving whatever their largest problems are and spend much less time thinking about things like love, sex or romance.

Maslow's pyramid and all that.

Re: Ask HN: How can I do social good through programming?

#304

Post by anigbrowl »

peacetreefrog wrote: post #188

Just read all the top line comments here. Interesting that no one had mentioned the one thing that has probably done the most to "better our chances as species" in the last few hundred years, and has helped hundreds of millions in India and China get out of backbreaking poverty and accumulate some wealth. And that is... Work hard, accumulate skills, and become better at your normal job. Even if you're not writing ope…

Sounds like half-reading Adam Smith but OK

Re: Ask HN: How can I do social good through programming?

#305

Post by TeMPOraL »

simplicitea wrote: post #240
TeMPOraL wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but you need to consider what you care about more - to have the problem solved, or to solve it yourself? Or to put it differently - do you care about increasing utility, or your own fuzzy feelings? Either of those goals are good, but they're better done separately. See also: http://lesswrong.com/lw/6z/purchase_fuzzies_and_utilons_sepa... .

I'll admit that I didn't read the link that you shared. However, I'd like to assert that I feel fuzzies yield utilons to the individual in a similar manner as utilons yield fuzzies, each requiring refinement in their acquisition to be optimal. I think it's a more-grey area than your comment or the title of the article you linked implies (having not read said article).

Please read it, it's not long. In the article, utilons refer to the utility your help brings, and fuzzies to the feelings they generate in you (which indeed you can see as utility for you, but you could also count it separately).

The point of the article is that if you optimize for utilons, fuzzies and status points separately - e.g. by doing one thing for maximum utility, and then another for maximum fuzzies - you'll be more efficient in all of them than if you try to find one thing that maximizes all three at the same time.

Re: Ask HN: How can I do social good through programming?

#306

Post by anigbrowl »

peacetreefrog wrote: post #283
erikpukinskis wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree strongly. By killing Netscape he set back the computer industry by a decade or more. If Gates hadn't used anti-competitive tactics, and he had just accepted, say, a 60% share for Windows, we would have reached where we are much quicker. We benefit immensely from the presence today of multiple strong operating systems, Windows, Android, iOS, MacOS, Linux, and Chrome are all great offerings that force the othe…

1. Even a monopoly provides social value, though not as much as competitive market. See: http://www.csun.edu/~hceco008/c11d.htm 2. I'm sure Microsoft's competitive tactics had something to do with it, but it also sounds like Netscape had it's own problems: https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Netscape-lose-ground-to-IE

Almost every comment you're leaving here seems based on a Just World Fallacy, which is very close to survivor bias. It's easy but misleading to look back at the good aspects of the past and derive a teleological theory that ignores opportunity costs.

Re: Ask HN: How can I do social good through programming?

#307

Post by TeMPOraL »

Mz wrote: post #303
TeMPOraL wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. But this is about as stupid an attitude as believing capitalism is a pure God-sent miracle and everything it does is only wonderful. The market economy brought us the age of unparalleled prosperity worldwide, but it also has serious problems worth addressing. One can talk about the drawbacks while at the same time being grateful for the positives. (Personally, I believe market economy has been much more benefici…

I'm sorry, but I said nothing about it being pure God-sent miracle. I find that to be a wild misinterpretation of my point. Generally speaking, you need a certain level of material security to worry about more abstract things like social good -- or even sexual pleasure. Lots of stuff I have read indicates that people in wealthy countries have a great deal more sex and talk and think about it a great deal more than th…

I didn't mean to put things in your mouth. I read your comment as complaining about an extreme anti-capitalism position; I wanted only to complement that with an example of extreme pro-capitalism position that I also frequently notice here.

You're 100% right about the hierarchy of needs (and about my baseline need satisfaction too; I can bitch about the state of the world exactly because I have somewhat stable income, health, safety and social sphere). I'm not disputing that. But since there are people who have those needs satisfied and are free to worry about more abstract things, is it wrong for them to ask how can they contribute so that more people reach that level of Maslow's pyramid (or, alternatively, so that the whole world won't go deeper into shit than it already is)?

Re: Ask HN: How can I do social good through programming?

#308

Post by Mz »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #307
Mz wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but I said nothing about it being pure God-sent miracle. I find that to be a wild misinterpretation of my point. Generally speaking, you need a certain level of material security to worry about more abstract things like social good -- or even sexual pleasure. Lots of stuff I have read indicates that people in wealthy countries have a great deal more sex and talk and think about it a great deal more than th…

I didn't mean to put things in your mouth. I read your comment as complaining about an extreme anti-capitalism position; I wanted only to complement that with an example of extreme pro-capitalism position that I also frequently notice here. You're 100% right about the hierarchy of needs (and about my baseline need satisfaction too; I can bitch about the state of the world exactly because I have somewhat stable income…

Rebutting the idea that capitalism is pure evil has nothing at all to do with suggesting that people should not be seeking to make the world a better place.

So, perhaps we should just let this be as we seem to be talking at cross purposes.

Re: Ask HN: How can I do social good through programming?

#310

Post by TeMPOraL »

anigbrowl wrote: post #304
peacetreefrog wrote: post #188

Just read all the top line comments here. Interesting that no one had mentioned the one thing that has probably done the most to "better our chances as species" in the last few hundred years, and has helped hundreds of millions in India and China get out of backbreaking poverty and accumulate some wealth. And that is... Work hard, accumulate skills, and become better at your normal job. Even if you're not writing ope…

Sounds like half-reading Adam Smith but OK

Please expand.
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