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The Heroin Business Is Booming in America

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Re: The Heroin Business Is Booming in America

#151

Post by pavel_lishin »

logfromblammo wrote: post #120
pavel_lishin wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm actually for legalizing all drugs like several other posters but I don't think society is ready for that. If society isn't ready for that, why are you for it? (fwiw, I'm with you on marijuana, and hope to see the day when it's as legal as cigarettes - but people have been optimistic about marijuana for decades :/)

Because a person who uses rational thought based on evidence will be for decriminalizing recreational drug use, whereas society as a whole still works on emotion, rumor, cognitive dissonance, rhetoric, mendacity, and prevarication. I actually hope to see the day when cannabis is more legal than tobacco cigarettes. When cannabis starts piling up the corpses, it can then be made as legal.

But OP didn't say decriminalizing recreational drug use; he said "legalizing all drugs".

Re: The Heroin Business Is Booming in America

#152

Post by boomboomsubban »

eternalvision wrote: post #149
senorjazz wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cannabis addiction (and I agree it exists) is not in the same league as opioid addiction. Heavy smokers may feel different when stopping, may have a few sleepless nights due to dreams returning, may be irritable, feel bored, but it is not at all comparable to those coming off a heavy opioid addiction. There is no equal disadvantage. If all heroin addicts were to magically over night turn into cannabis addicts and no…

Marijuana absolutely can and does cause far more significant withdrawal than just a few sleepless nights. Under certain circumstances, the withdrawal can persist for much, much longer. It's irresponsible to assume that marijuana is harmless and non-addictive or only mildly addictive, and too easy to justify as being benign, when juxtaposed wth the withdrawal process of harder drugs.

Not really, marijuana withdrawals are fairly tame and many people don't even experiences those. At most, a couple of weeks of irritability, appetite issues, and problems sleeping.

The psychological "withdrawal" can be much worse, but there is a whole range of regular things that can lead to those addictions. And it is often abused to hide other mental health issues, which can flare up while quitting.

Re: The Heroin Business Is Booming in America

#153

Post by smogcutter »

Anyone else notice that a common theme in the recent wave of handwringing over heroin and opioid addiction is that the victims we're asked to consider with compassion and understanding are almost always white? The tough on crime drug war rhetoric disappears so easily when the victims are "regular people" who fell prey to the pharma industry, not "junkies".

I'm not saying that we shouldn't treat these people with compassion -- exactly the opposite. The LA Times series in particular is a fantastic piece of reporting. Rather, I'm saying we should consider why the portrayal of this particular drug epidemic is so different than others, and how we can extend the same compassion to others who have also had their lives and families destroyed by drugs. We hear about these people because they're white. Meanwhile, what's happening to the people we don't hear about?

Re: The Heroin Business Is Booming in America

#154

Post by vkou »

SCAQTony wrote: post #86
throwaway2016a wrote: post #44

This is probably pop psychology but it always struck me that if you legalize marijuana you go a long way to solving the problem. My thoughts are... 1. It is reportedly a better pain killer in some cases than opioids so it keeps people off of the prescription opioids 2. It is nowhere near as addictive (possibly not addictive at all) 3. When people are already criminals (because they smoke weed) I think they are more l…

Pot would alleviate much of the heroin problem but with great advantages comes equal disadvantages. I suspect we will see these issues soon. Point number two: Marijuana is addictive and individuals with marijuana addiction entering voluntary rehab is increasing:( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2797098/ ) Theory: The reason one does not get physical withdraws is that it is oil based, stored in the fat an…

> Point number two: Marijuana is addictive and individuals with marijuana addiction entering voluntary rehab is increasing:(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2797098/)

Most people entering voluntary rehab do so under duress. Specifically, they are doing so as part of a plea bargain, to avoid serving prison time for a drug charge.

Re: The Heroin Business Is Booming in America

#155

Post by Analemma_ »

smogcutter wrote: post #153

Anyone else notice that a common theme in the recent wave of handwringing over heroin and opioid addiction is that the victims we're asked to consider with compassion and understanding are almost always white? The tough on crime drug war rhetoric disappears so easily when the victims are "regular people" who fell prey to the pharma industry, not "junkies". I'm not saying that we shouldn't treat these people with comp…

You're definitely not the only one to notice, there have even been articles about it. It's pretty disgusting, but from a utilitarian perspective, caring for victims is better than not caring out of spite. About all we can do is hope that once we get this particular epidemic cleaned up, the next time one comes around that mainly affects poor blacks, we remember the lessons learned.

Re: The Heroin Business Is Booming in America

#156

Post by [deleted] »

Digory wrote: post #136
egwynn wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s rather generous of you to call them “screw ups” from big pharma.

The interview goes into the history of pharma's search for a non-addictive opiate. I assume that started with decent motives, even if not altruistic. The research critically failed a lot of people. Among other things, says Quinones's, it "transformed football into a gateway to heroin addiction..." The more recent big pharma position of "we never thought to ask why West Virginians are such good customers" deserves sco…

[deleted]

Re: The Heroin Business Is Booming in America

#157

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #44

This is probably pop psychology but it always struck me that if you legalize marijuana you go a long way to solving the problem. My thoughts are... 1. It is reportedly a better pain killer in some cases than opioids so it keeps people off of the prescription opioids 2. It is nowhere near as addictive (possibly not addictive at all) 3. When people are already criminals (because they smoke weed) I think they are more l…

[deleted]

Re: The Heroin Business Is Booming in America

#158

Post by jobu »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #44

This is probably pop psychology but it always struck me that if you legalize marijuana you go a long way to solving the problem. My thoughts are... 1. It is reportedly a better pain killer in some cases than opioids so it keeps people off of the prescription opioids 2. It is nowhere near as addictive (possibly not addictive at all) 3. When people are already criminals (because they smoke weed) I think they are more l…

> 1. [Marijuana] is reportedly a better pain killer in some cases than opioids so it keeps people off of the prescription opioids

This is key. Prescription pain killers are the gateway drug to heroin, not marijuana. Many normal, working class people become unexpectedly addicted to opioids by using medications exactly as prescribed. Rush Limbaugh is probably the most high-profile example of this. The tighter rules on opioid prescriptions might have some effect, but it will likely take FDA approval of marijuana for this to be reversed.

> 3. When people are already criminals (because they smoke weed) I think they are more likely to say "screw it" and try a harder drug....

Somewhat agree here, but I don't think they try heroin because they're already doing weed. They do it because life is shit and heroin is a hell of an escape. When life is that bad it's really hard to see the downside to using hard drugs.

There are also some people that use heroin because of psychological issues or social pressure, but I think easy access to weed would reduce that as well.

Re: The Heroin Business Is Booming in America

#159

Post by eternalvision »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #152
eternalvision wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marijuana absolutely can and does cause far more significant withdrawal than just a few sleepless nights. Under certain circumstances, the withdrawal can persist for much, much longer. It's irresponsible to assume that marijuana is harmless and non-addictive or only mildly addictive, and too easy to justify as being benign, when juxtaposed wth the withdrawal process of harder drugs.

Not really, marijuana withdrawals are fairly tame and many people don't even experiences those. At most, a couple of weeks of irritability, appetite issues, and problems sleeping. The psychological "withdrawal" can be much worse, but there is a whole range of regular things that can lead to those addictions. And it is often abused to hide other mental health issues, which can flare up while quitting.

You moved the goalposts. My response was to the claim of a "few" sleepless nights, which is far from the truth for the majority of long term regular users who quit. Instead, you said that there are, "at most, a couple weeks of" mild symptoms. This is simply not representative of the withdrawal scenario for long term heavy usage, both in duration and intensity.

I've seen first hand mentally stable folks who quit smoking marijuana after full time use for a number of decades. The withdrawal symptoms in these folks were far from mild, and lasted more than "at most a couple of weeks". Long term insomnia alone is a serious risk factor, due to their dependence on marijuana to maintain a regular sleep schedule.

While your generalization that marijuana withdrawal is tame may be true in many cases, particularly for light or short term use, it is false for long term daily users.

Re: The Heroin Business Is Booming in America

#160

Post by keebEz »

smogcutter wrote: post #153

Anyone else notice that a common theme in the recent wave of handwringing over heroin and opioid addiction is that the victims we're asked to consider with compassion and understanding are almost always white? The tough on crime drug war rhetoric disappears so easily when the victims are "regular people" who fell prey to the pharma industry, not "junkies". I'm not saying that we shouldn't treat these people with comp…

Not sure but the media during the crack epidemic sure focused on non-white people... And that just further perpetrated the idea and image that non-white people do drugs and thus are bad.

This seems like a way to raise awareness in a more responsible way.

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