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Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#211

Post by rightnow »

draugadrotten wrote: post #184
notahacker wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(i)The case was very publicly reopened the week after it had been announced it was being dropped. I mean, it's not like headlines like this would have escaped Assange's notice http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/rape-investig... Assange spent 26 more days in the country and then flew out hours after his arrest warrant was signed. (ii) there's nothing particularly unusual about a more senior prosecutor over…

> ii) there's nothing particularly unusual about a more senior prosecutor overriding an earlier decision of a more junior prosecutor The prosecutor who dismissed the case was senior, and not junior in any sense of the word, rank or age. You say it's not unusual (in Sweden). I've never seen a single example of another rape case which was dismissed and reopened in this manner. Can you give a few examples of other re-op…

Fast google search. Nr 1 hit: https://www.svd.se/valdtaktsfall-tas-upp-igen

Here is 3 more thats been reopened.

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#213

Post by vidarh »

rmc wrote: post #187
vidarh wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assessment, though, is based on an assumption that Swedish authorities would have complied with Swedish law. Part of Assanges fear of going to Sweden, whether justified or not, is presumably that Sweden had a history of letting Swedish police get away with blatantly violating Swedish law in support of US rendition. One could argue that this risk is not real in his case, but that is/was not relevant to whether or…

Whereas the UK has a history of colluding with terrorists to murder politically annoying human rights lawyers ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Finucane ) and oppressing an ethnic minority (the whole of The Troubles in Nothern Ireland). There's a reason "People in NI should have direct access to the ECHR" (as opposed to going through UK courts) was a part of the 1998 Good Friday Agreement when brought peace to NI.…

I did not imply anywhere that the UK is a bastion of freedom and liberty. For starters I don't personally consider the UK a democracy at all because of the electoral system, and I do agree with you there were certainly plenty of abuses related to Northern Ireland.

But the question here is where Assange would have reason to feel safer in the UK than in Sweden, and just like many other places through history, a place can both be incredibly safe for one group of people and unsafe for other groups of people at the same time.

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#214

Post by zeckalpha »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #115
Sir_Substance wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the US traditionally sidesteps this legal thorn by detaining people without charge at gitmo for as long as they like. Non-US citizens have minimal to no rights under US law, so it's all just peachy

Doesn't the US Bill of Rights talk in several places about "any person": Fifth Amendment to USA Constitution: >nor shall any person [...] be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; Sounds like quite a strong right. FWIW this contrasts with the pages referring to "the people" which are limited and not universal, "any person" means any person.

Yes, but Guantanamo is outside the US and so the Constitution doesn't apply.

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#215

Post by throw2016 »

The hypocrisy is stunning. Chinese or Russian governments harassing whistle blowers and leakers on this scale would be met by a frenzy of hysterical global condemnation by the media, human rights orgs, governments and citizens with their domestic courts systems summarily dismissed and pay a price in global reputation and even sanctions.

Yet here we have Snowden and Assange being harassed brazenly for years with little respite under the cover of 'process'. If Snowden or Assange were Russians and defected to reveal global Russian surveillance they would be legends feted by every single media organization, university, NGO and government every single day. Why the double standards.

It appears some are more intoxicated by the moral high ground than committed to it.

Kangaroo courts, secret processes and harassment of whistle blowers and journalists are the tools of trade of despots whether used brazenly by unsophisticated tinpots or covered in process by governments and their courts in the UK, Sweden and the US. The end effect is the same. Simply covering inherently despotic and corrupt action with law and 'processes' does not make it lawful.

But the big difference is chinese or russian citizens are under no illusions about their rulers while we see a dissonance in our citizens, media and organizations rushing to condemn others while completely failing to hold our governments accountable in any meaningful way.

How have Swedish and UK citizens, the media and all human rights orgs from western europe experts at creating global frenzy against despots worldwide held their own governments to account, or helped Snowden or Assange in any meaningful way all these years? So ultimately there is no accountability. Only blatant self serving hypocrisy.

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#216

Post by k-mcgrady »

josteink wrote: post #182
k-mcgrady wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK they could try and charge him under the Espionage Act but it would be difficult and unlikely to succeed. I think there are one or two other possible charges but both are also unlikely to succeed. As long as they can make his life a living hell though (long trial, loss of freedoms until found innocent) that would hopefully (from the USG perspective) discourage other leakers.

> AFAIK they could try and charge him under the Espionage Act but it would be difficult and unlikely to succeed. So you are saying the US has laws which within US jurisdiction says that it's OK to file for extradition of non-US citizens anywhere in the world, if the US doesn't like what they do? Good for them, I guess, but why should the rest of the world comply? If we should comply with this for the US, surely we sh…

This is nothing new. We comply with the US because it's politically good and vice versa for those other nations. However the UK does have a decent record denying extraditions to the US from what I've seen (Gary McKinnon for example).

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#217

Post by whyenot »

Trill-I-Am wrote: post #203
jmkni wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because he skipped bail, which is against the law. They would arrest anybody who did the same thing.

Do you think they spend as much money on less politically noteworthy bail skippers?

On a bail skipper "hiding" in plain sight in the middle of London? Absolutely. Why is how much money "they" spend even relevant? He skipped bail. He should be arrested and face the consequences just like anyone else in the same situation.

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#218

Post by Kiro »

throw2016 wrote: post #215

The hypocrisy is stunning. Chinese or Russian governments harassing whistle blowers and leakers on this scale would be met by a frenzy of hysterical global condemnation by the media, human rights orgs, governments and citizens with their domestic courts systems summarily dismissed and pay a price in global reputation and even sanctions. Yet here we have Snowden and Assange being harassed brazenly for years with littl…

> How have Swedish and UK citizens, [...] helped Snowden or Assange in any meaningful way in all these years?

Well, since I believe he's guilty of rape I have no interest in helping him.

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#219

Post by mason240 »

cjrp wrote: post #173
contingencies wrote: post #75

Congratulations Julian! It's been a long time coming. On a related note, for those unaware, the asylum seekers who helped Snowden escape Hong Kong are currently under threat of being sent back to their own countries (which they left for various reasons including violence, torture and rape). Snowden has called for people to help them. 56% of the €100k goal has been raised so far. https://www.gofundme.com/snowdenguardi…

Really? We're congratulating people who successfully skip bail now?

It's going to be interesting watching everyone flip sides on this from where they were 4 years ago.

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#220

Post by ptaipale »

vidarh wrote: post #207
kristianc wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Part of that fear was presumably based in the unusual persistence of the Swedish prosecutor, which implied something odd was going on. But that "something odd" might simply have been the prosecutors ambitions. The law is the law, and Assange stood accused of a serious crime in Sweden. The idea that Sweden would simply forget about it because Assange had holed himself up in an embassy for five years seems misplaced.

With the "unusual persistence" I was not referring to keeping the case open, but with e.g. continuing to refuse not to interview him for four years for no good reason, while giving reasons that she eventually proved were false by finally agreeing to do it anyway.

You ignore the procedural limitations imposed by Swedish law. The law is a perfectly "good reason" for authorities to act the way they did.

It is a rather common meme to accuse Swedes of not conforming to concepts of British/U.S. law (common law system) when Swedish has another system, not any worse but somewhat different in the usage of terms like "charge".

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