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Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#181

Post by Majestic121 »

matt4077 wrote: post #113
sschueller wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is his crime? He isn't the one committing war crimes. He is exposing them. Yet we continue to go after whistle blowers and journalist instead of the ones who committed these crimes against humanity.

Well he was accused of rape, or, more accurately, sexual assault by other countries' definitions. Those charges have now been dropped, for what I can only assume "a preponderance of the evidence suggesting the defendant is permanently insanity". But he may have committed other crimes in his attempt to flee the rape charge (not sure if 'failure to appear' is a crime in the UK, that differs by jurisdiction). None of al…

You're right when you say that one person's good deed in one domain don't make him immune to criminal charges for unrelated matters. However, Assange did not just did a 'good deed', he became a very high value political target and most of the time such people are protected from unrelated charges, since it is very easy to false flag them/burden them with bs to keep them from doing their job. For example in France the president has partial immunity. The case of diplomatic immunity also comes to mind.

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#182

Post by josteink »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #50
ginko wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What base do these have? Assange isn't a US citizen, so he can't be charged for treason like Snowden and Manning. He just gained information and published it.

AFAIK they could try and charge him under the Espionage Act but it would be difficult and unlikely to succeed. I think there are one or two other possible charges but both are also unlikely to succeed. As long as they can make his life a living hell though (long trial, loss of freedoms until found innocent) that would hopefully (from the USG perspective) discourage other leakers.

> AFAIK they could try and charge him under the Espionage Act but it would be difficult and unlikely to succeed.

So you are saying the US has laws which within US jurisdiction says that it's OK to file for extradition of non-US citizens anywhere in the world, if the US doesn't like what they do?

Good for them, I guess, but why should the rest of the world comply?

If we should comply with this for the US, surely we should do so too for Iran, China and Russia, just to mention a few. Is that a direction which anyone have any illusions about ever ending well?

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#183

Post by efraim »

vidarh wrote: post #156
efraim wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really doesn't. They wanted to question him, he fled and locked himself up in an embassy. You don't know what evidence they have but rape cases such as this rarely have any physical evidence but they should still be investigated.

And Assange kept offering to let them interview him in the UK. They refused for four years before finally agreeing last year. Why could they not have interviewed him for those four years?

Should the Swedish authorities chase after everyone they want to interview and do it where it pleases that person? If someone is wanted for rape and travels to Thailand, should Swedish prosecutor and police fly to Thailand to question them? What if the interview leads to them wanting to arrest that person, should they arrest them while in another country?

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#184

Post by draugadrotten »

notahacker wrote: post #177
vidarh wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had closed the case, and notified him of that. Then a new prosecutor reopens the case and goes after him. The point is that Sweden might very well have seemed perfectly safe despite those past actions until a prosecutor took those steps which still seems exceedingly odd. To have one prosecutor say there was no case to answer, only to have another prosecutor specifically go after the case and reopen it, is uncomm…

(i)The case was very publicly reopened the week after it had been announced it was being dropped. I mean, it's not like headlines like this would have escaped Assange's notice http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/rape-investig... Assange spent 26 more days in the country and then flew out hours after his arrest warrant was signed. (ii) there's nothing particularly unusual about a more senior prosecutor over…

> ii) there's nothing particularly unusual about a more senior prosecutor overriding an earlier decision of a more junior prosecutor

The prosecutor who dismissed the case was senior, and not junior in any sense of the word, rank or age.

You say it's not unusual (in Sweden). I've never seen a single example of another rape case which was dismissed and reopened in this manner. Can you give a few examples of other re-opened Swedish rape cases, seeing that it's "not unusual" from your point of view.

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#185

Post by azernik »

wbhart wrote: post #37
grabcocque wrote: post #21

The UK police will arrest him for obstruction of justice the moment he tries to leave the wardrobe he's hiding in. He'd probably be convicted, which carries a maximum sentence of [EDIT] 1 year in prison.

Can seeking asylum be used as a reason for bringing charges against someone? As far as I understand, exercising legal options cannot ever be interpreted as an illegal act. I think it's much more likely the UK will pick Assange up on behalf of the US, who have threatened to charge him.

Assange's bid for asylum does not give him immunity, under British law, from normal criminal charges (which is how they view the Swedish charges). Witness their promises to arrest Assange if he left the Ecuadorian embassy, regardless of his subsequent right to leave for Ecuador after being tried.

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#186

Post by draugadrotten »

Tomte wrote: post #148
jacquesm wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's not how it works. Showing up for a trial (and being represented) reduces your chances of a conviction. Sweden could have held a trial in absentia leading to a conviction if they believed they had a case to begin with. I always wondered why they did not do that.

As it has been explained many times: no, they couldn't have. Trial in absentia is not a universal feature of justice systems. Germany, for example, doesn't have it. Neither has Sweden.

Sweden most certainly has trial in absentia. It is up to the judge to decide if a case can be tried in the absense of the accused.

Use google translate: http://lawline.se/answers/8630

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#187

Post by rmc »

vidarh wrote: post #108
r721 wrote: post #49

David Allen Green‏, Law and policy commentator at @FT: >It is now easier for US to obtain Assange's extradition, if they (ever) wanted it. >Now only UK's consent required, not UK and Sweden. https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/86550564980685619...

That assessment, though, is based on an assumption that Swedish authorities would have complied with Swedish law. Part of Assanges fear of going to Sweden, whether justified or not, is presumably that Sweden had a history of letting Swedish police get away with blatantly violating Swedish law in support of US rendition. One could argue that this risk is not real in his case, but that is/was not relevant to whether or…

Whereas the UK has a history of colluding with terrorists to murder politically annoying human rights lawyers ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Finucane ) and oppressing an ethnic minority (the whole of The Troubles in Nothern Ireland). There's a reason "People in NI should have direct access to the ECHR" (as opposed to going through UK courts) was a part of the 1998 Good Friday Agreement when brought peace to NI.

UK is hardly a bastion of freedom and liberty.

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#188

Post by rmc »

notahacker wrote: post #132
vidarh wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assessment, though, is based on an assumption that Swedish authorities would have complied with Swedish law. Part of Assanges fear of going to Sweden, whether justified or not, is presumably that Sweden had a history of letting Swedish police get away with blatantly violating Swedish law in support of US rendition. One could argue that this risk is not real in his case, but that is/was not relevant to whether or…

If Assange truly feared the police blatantly violating Swedish law in support of rendition, then it would seem strange for him to base himself in Sweden, remain in the country whilst being well aware of the investigation under way against him and leave only on the day they notified him they'd received legal authorisation to detain him. And then repeat the whole thing in the UK...

It's also very strange that, if he was really afraid of the US & NATO, he'd flee to the UK. Sweden is not in NATO, and the UK co-founded it. The UK and the US have a long standing "special relationship", with the UK being the main other country involved in invading Iraq. If you're afraid of the US, why you'd go to the UK is beyond me.

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#189

Post by k__ »

cjrp wrote: post #173
contingencies wrote: post #75

Congratulations Julian! It's been a long time coming. On a related note, for those unaware, the asylum seekers who helped Snowden escape Hong Kong are currently under threat of being sent back to their own countries (which they left for various reasons including violence, torture and rape). Snowden has called for people to help them. 56% of the €100k goal has been raised so far. https://www.gofundme.com/snowdenguardi…

Really? We're congratulating people who successfully skip bail now?

Didn't they setup fake accusations to destroy his reputation and make it easier to let the US imprison him?

I thought this all was pretty obvious :/

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#190

Post by vidarh »

notahacker wrote: post #177
vidarh wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had closed the case, and notified him of that. Then a new prosecutor reopens the case and goes after him. The point is that Sweden might very well have seemed perfectly safe despite those past actions until a prosecutor took those steps which still seems exceedingly odd. To have one prosecutor say there was no case to answer, only to have another prosecutor specifically go after the case and reopen it, is uncomm…

(i)The case was very publicly reopened the week after it had been announced it was being dropped. I mean, it's not like headlines like this would have escaped Assange's notice http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/rape-investig... Assange spent 26 more days in the country and then flew out hours after his arrest warrant was signed. (ii) there's nothing particularly unusual about a more senior prosecutor over…

The point being that initially it seemed safe to stay - that this case would go away and was genuinely just about those allegations. Then the longer it went on, the more unusual the case seemed.

Whether or not it was unusual enough to justify Assanges fears is irrelevant. The question is whether or not they were enough to cause him to start fearing something else was going on.

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