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Etsy is under pressure to start acting more like a conventional company

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Re: Etsy is under pressure to start acting more like a conventional company

#141
post #130
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You touch on what I think is a bigger concern, as somebody who spends a lot of time on this sort of work: Terraform doesn't actually solve any problem that I encounter. You aren't "provider neutral" when using it, as you say, and moving from one nontrivial provider (AWS, GCE, Azure) to another is a full rewrite. I disagree--and rather strongly at that--that it's a lock-in thing, unless you are aggressively climbing a…

I think Terraform does solve some problems, for some teams. For us it's really the process it provides - by moving VPS infrastructure definition to code, rather than management UIs, we can apply our existing code review processes we have to our hardware infrastructure before promoting through staging environments, not just the product code. This is vastly preferable to letting individual engineers run wild at the AWS…

Sure. I feel very strongly that Terraform is strictly inferior to CloudFormation in doing this. Terraform breaks its own promises (JSON support was broken for a long time, I'm not even sure it's fully there now), has demonstrated regressions in releases (going so far as to break existing states by doing so), and has enough of a habit of horking existing states that multiple clients separately coined the term "terrafucked" for having their states trashed and necessitating manual intervention.

CloudFormation isn't perfect--but it isn't a hand grenade.

Re: Etsy is under pressure to start acting more like a conventional company

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The easiest response is to ask you to read some Warren Buffett. I've read plenty of Buffet, Munger, Graham, Dodd and the rest. Pretty common knowledge. What you are missing in your analysis is that Buffet et. al. invest in very well understood businesses (hell, they didn't even touch Amazon). Very well understood businesses tend to have very well understood systems (including the people and their roles and contribut…

If Etsy's management didn't understand their business, they shouldn't have been it's management. But truth is, their business isn't from Mars, it's easy to understand, even if it's not easy to optimize. And if they truly need special custom development, why are they so poor at doing it? Where are the benefits of all that admin spending? And BTW, I can't think of one Berkshire business that has any significant moat fr…

>Etsy should know what makes it special to customers. Why isn't it more efficient at delivering that?

It is a Very Hard Problem and I don't envy them at all.

Verification of authenticity. I honestly wouldn't know where to begin. Spot check with live people? Expensive and begging for errors. Have sellers document their process? Easy to fake and expensive to check. Have a hair trigger for banning people that are clearly breaking the rules?

They also have the structural problem that Painstakingly Crafted generally takes time. That means less throughput.

And all of that is on top of the general problems of running an internet retailer with global reach.

Because of all of the pressures of throughput and the cost of verification they decided to ignore all of that and just give up, for the most part. And now it is a race to find a new 'quirky stuff that looks crafty' niche like an online Hobby Lobby to live in or lose their brand completely. I don't think it will work in the long term and I think we are witnessing a slow motion Pets.com.

Probably, what they'd need to do is split what they are doing.

One side would be how most of Esty is right now: a bunch of Hobby Lobby level quality crafty looking things that aren't actually hand crafted in any meaningful sense. It would be the place to go to get cheap, somewhat unusual gifts.

On the other side would be high end items. Hand crafted $2000 rocking chairs, for example. Something that can be marked up significantly and that it is worth it to go the extra mile by Etsy and sellers to verify is handcrafted. Maybe video walkthroughs of the process, spot checks, samples sent in to Etsy to be examined by experts etc.

Sellers can exist in both areas or one. The Verified Crafted side would buttress the Crafty but not Crafted side brand wise and the Crafty side would have a larger, more predictable income stream to make sure Verified Crafted can tackle the sticky problems it faces.

Re: Etsy is under pressure to start acting more like a conventional company

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Market value means that your turnover should already be low, your employees can't leave for better paying jobs. The curve isn't flat. >Do you really think those people are going to leave Etsy because it no longer has the CEO's cult cheerleader squad decorating the offices? I think people that spend their time learning a craft then peddling hand crafted objects for, let's face it, love over money, will not want to wo…

The curve isn't flat, but the benefits are massively disproportionately expensive the farther up it you go. This isn't an argument about making the company "soulless". You can still have a great and fun work environment without spending 25% of sales on admin. And much of what makes work enjoyable isn't benefits, but leadership. Having management that is competent, humble, approachable, and driven to empower employees…

No argument here but what do you mean by 'admin'?

Re: Etsy is under pressure to start acting more like a conventional company

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're correct that ultimately, at the end of the day, the shareholders are the owners of the business, and should have ultimate control over how their resources are allocated or spent. That doesn't mean that the shareholders interests are necessarily for profit above all else. If your shareholders were perfectly happy with being ecologically conscious and providing an above-average place of business for employees ir…

If you are a shareholder and want to spend some of your profits on ecologically conscious activities, no one can stop you. But that doesn't mean you should force the other shareholders to do the same. And Etsy isn't a B corporation. It's CEO tried to make it one and failed.

Etsy is currently a B corporation. They're likely to not remain one. The article clearly points this out, but it's easily verifiable as well:

- https://www.bcorporation.net/community/etsy

- https://blog.etsy.com/news/2012/etsy-joins-the-b-corporation...

- https://www.etsy.com/ca/mission

Re: Etsy is under pressure to start acting more like a conventional company

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're correct that ultimately, at the end of the day, the shareholders are the owners of the business, and should have ultimate control over how their resources are allocated or spent. That doesn't mean that the shareholders interests are necessarily for profit above all else. If your shareholders were perfectly happy with being ecologically conscious and providing an above-average place of business for employees ir…

If you are a shareholder and want to spend some of your profits on ecologically conscious activities, no one can stop you. But that doesn't mean you should force the other shareholders to do the same. And Etsy isn't a B corporation. It's CEO tried to make it one and failed.

>And Etsy isn't a B corporation. It's CEO tried to make it one and failed.

Their website says Etsy has been a certified B Corp since 2012: https://www.bcorporation.net/community/etsy

Re: Etsy is under pressure to start acting more like a conventional company

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, everytime I hear someone complain about capitalism I eyeroll because they clearly aren't "woke" enough to realize that capitalism is the reason they can remain blissfully ignorant of how capitalism supports their blissful ignorance. Capitalism isn't without its bugaboos, but the wholesale rejection I hear people making can only come from a place of ignorance.

200 years ago: > Yup, everytime I hear someone complain about feudalism I eyeroll because they clearly aren't "woke" enough to realize that feudalism is the reason they can remain blissfully ignorant of how feudalism supports their blissful ignorance. > Feudalism isn't without its bugaboos, but the wholesale rejection I hear people making can only come from a place of ignorance.

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Re: Etsy is under pressure to start acting more like a conventional company

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With all the AI being thrown around, can't someone build a "tastefulness" filter? It turns out taste varies.

I would argue (somewhat tongue in cheek) that people who don't have a taste [1] don't need a filter. The filter is for people who want to climb above the trash, not for those who willingly submerge themselves. [1] https://www.etsy.com/shop/GrainyDayCreations , https://www.etsy.com/shop/PurpleHeartUK , https://www.etsy.com/shop/BigSwigDesign , https://www.etsy.com/shop/CraftyMamaGifts , etc.

Right. I wouldn't use that; while I can totally understand why you linked the shops you did, they also aren't qualitatively much different than the shops I do appreciate. So I'd rather not automate away my taste until, you know, it's my taste.

Re: Etsy is under pressure to start acting more like a conventional company

#148
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your post reads a bit contradictory. The only way we can all be responsible for negative externalities is if we each individually choose to be responsible, or if lawmakers force us all to be responsible. I honestly don't know what your view on this subject is, because you seem to be deriding any possible solution to the problem of negative externalities.

Well, one example would be if you are CEO of a car manufacturer. Your engineers design two catalytic converters, one that meets all government regulations/requirements, and another that does substantially better, but reduces horsepower and drivability significantly. If you are environmentally conscious and decide to standardize all your cars on the cleaner catalytic converter, and consumers react poorly and sales suf…

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Re: Etsy is under pressure to start acting more like a conventional company

#149
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Edit: Yes, I understand the pricing differences of cloud. So just say "it's cheaper to run our own stuff", don't pretend its due to some desire for "craft". I think your criticism would make sense if the article was accurate. But I don't think this quote > Etsy’s insistence on running its own servers rather than using cloud-based services and software offered by companies such as Google and Amazon—an emphasis that…

>"AFAIK no one at Etsy has said that they run their own servers because it's more authentic, part of their "craft", etc." I'm not sure I would agree with that based on a recent-ish post on “code as craft” the Etsy engineering blog: "At Etsy, the vast majority of our computing happens on physical servers that live in our own data centers. Since we don’t do much in the cloud, we’ve developed tools to automate away some…

Only reviewing from your excerpt -

Just because someone sees the work that is done as part of a more cost effective solution as 'craft', doesn't mean it is actually done solely for that reason..

automated cloud deploy pipelines likely would also fit the bill and could be blogged about just in the same way, as one small example...

Re: Etsy is under pressure to start acting more like a conventional company

#150

Bizarre. I've only tried to use Etsy once, figuring it'd be a great place to get some sort of unique jewellery as a gift. It's filled with junk, both of the super-manufactured kind and of the "modern art" kind (someone glues 2 pieces of crap together and wants $500.) I haven't gone back, though I did enjoy the Regretsy blog while it was up. >Etsy’s insistence on running its own servers rather than using cloud-based s…

Etsy’s insistence on running its own servers rather than using cloud-based services and software offered by companies such as Google and Amazon—an emphasis that was known, under Dickerson, as “code as craft” Yup, this is definitely something only a non-technical person would say (or more specifically: something a business analyst cut-and-pasting snippets of advice fed to him by the various tech-oriented randos he hap…

> various tech-oriented randos he happens to know

or whom he has investments or partnerships with...

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