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Android O Beta Program

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Re: Android O Beta Program

#101

Post by pas »

forkbomb_ wrote: post #96
pas wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And do they need a new kernel so desperately? I don't understand the problems with backward compatibility. They already provide it via the Android SDK (the support library). Java/Dex/Dalvik/ART or whatever it's called now that runs the shit works on Linux 3.0 probably. (Android 2.3 was released with Linux 2.6.35 [+ patches, I assume && hope], and that's currently the lowest supported API Level (that is api level 9)).

The kernel isn't the problem - one of the devices I maintain runs 7.1 (mostly) fine on Linux 3.0[1]. The issues lie in the HALs - which translate between the standard Android camera/sensor/telephony APIs and the vendor's implementation in the kernel. These are device-specific, and usually provided to the OEM by a HW/chipset manufacturer. Google is generally pretty good about keeping source compatibility, but ABIs cha…

Oh. I see, so the binary blobs that are not exactly user space, but not exactly non-userspace either.

That's why XDA is full of ROMs that "just need to get GPS working and camera sometimes crashes" :(

How come Google doesn't try to source better hardware for their phones? Also, is this the cause of why Apple in-housed a lot of things?

Also, how come there isn't an isolation layer for these blobs, something like docker for the phone? (So they get their runtime dependencies, and communicate with them via a socket-shim?)

Re: Android O Beta Program

#102

Post by Grazester »

taeric wrote: post #6

No nexus 6 support. Sad face. The shelf life of phones is embarrassingly low. For no apparent reason.

"The shelf life of phones is embarrassingly low. For no apparent reason"

No it wasn't, and I didn't even get this phone new but a year into its life. This phone came out in 2014. It got its fair share of updates.

Re: Android O Beta Program

#103

Post by lorenzhs »

pas wrote: post #88
lorenzhs wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it was just bad luck. But 2-3% failure rate sounds very high, can you provide a link with more information?

No, sorry, it's pretty much a hunch/guess/anecdote/observation. I only found software rates https://www.blancco.com/resources/rs-state-of-mobile-device-... though I know nothing of the veracity of this ... study. https://www.statista.com/statistics/218777/failure-rates-for... .. Ah, finally something a bit more relevant: https://www.squaretrade.com/cell-phone-comparison-study-nov-... 2% for iPhone 4.

Thanks for looking it up. I also found the blancco study, but their score includes "crashing apps, WiFi connectivity and other performance issues" so it seems more like a consumer satisfaction survey than a device reliability study.

The squaretrade thing is more interesting, the raw data for the statista link is https://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/iPhone_failure_rates_6_2.... I'd be interested in an update on that, phone materials have changed a lot in the last six or seven years. I would hope that things have improved overall but it would be nice to get confirmation on that.

Re: Android O Beta Program

#104

Post by tostitos1979 »

dflock wrote: post #70
tostitos1979 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I loved my N5 but the battery wasn't user replaceable. I am not one to crack open my phone (plus the power switch died). I got a 5x .. decent phone but had speed slowdowns since day 1. I made the mistake of getting a 16 GB version (lack of expansion is mind boggling). I'm also disappointed with the Pixel's price. Might get an iPhone next.

The Nexus 5 is very user serviceable - all the parts a labelled, most things just clip on/off. Replacing the power switch is a 10 minute job, and costs ~$5.

If only these things had screws! My biggest issue was opening it up (popping out the screen, digitizer, etc.) and putting it together back to its original state.

Re: Android O Beta Program

#106

Post by fulafel »

plaguuuuuu wrote: post #66
fulafel wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have been out of security support for a long time - apps, web pages and video clips can pwn your device.

That's surprisingly terrible. Unbelievable. To think that Google can't even support its own devices after 3 years whilst the Linux ecosystem supports a silly number of devices and platforms, substantially on a volunteer basis

3 years is the absolute best case you can get, if you buy the device on release day.

You get only 1.5 years it's been on the market for 1.5 years.

Re: Android O Beta Program

#107

Post by pawadu »

forkbomb_ wrote: post #98
pawadu wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my mine gripe. Google should put some resources into kernel development for a year or so.Get the changes they want into Linux 5.0 and make it the android long-term-release kernel. Then no further changes to the kernel unless its 0.0.1 security patches.

Google does this already[1]. As far as I know, it's possible to boot Android off a mainline kernel - the main obstacle is the lack of drivers in the upstream kernel. Certainly, a lot of the SoCs (especially in older phones) can _boot_ from mainline. Maybe you could even get a serial console, or a picture of tux on the screen. But the OEMs don't really have any incentive to upstream their drivers (or port older platfo…

You missed my point.

It doesn't have to be a mainstream kernel. The only important part is that it is a fixed kernel version so drivers and such does not need to be re-written with each new android release.

Re: Android O Beta Program

#108

Post by kasabali »

pawadu wrote: post #107
forkbomb_ wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google does this already[1]. As far as I know, it's possible to boot Android off a mainline kernel - the main obstacle is the lack of drivers in the upstream kernel. Certainly, a lot of the SoCs (especially in older phones) can _boot_ from mainline. Maybe you could even get a serial console, or a picture of tux on the screen. But the OEMs don't really have any incentive to upstream their drivers (or port older platfo…

You missed my point. It doesn't have to be a mainstream kernel. The only important part is that it is a fixed kernel version so drivers and such does not need to be re-written with each new android release.

> It doesn't have to be a mainstream kernel. The only important part is that it is a fixed kernel version

This is how it is done already. Google picks a kernel release (historically 3.0, 3.4, 3.10, 3.18, 4.4 etc.) and ports Android patches to that kernel while developing new features as well. Then SoC vendors do their bringups using that kernel tree.

Re: Android O Beta Program

#109

Post by Gluek »

dflock wrote: post #70
tostitos1979 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I loved my N5 but the battery wasn't user replaceable. I am not one to crack open my phone (plus the power switch died). I got a 5x .. decent phone but had speed slowdowns since day 1. I made the mistake of getting a 16 GB version (lack of expansion is mind boggling). I'm also disappointed with the Pixel's price. Might get an iPhone next.

The Nexus 5 is very user serviceable - all the parts a labelled, most things just clip on/off. Replacing the power switch is a 10 minute job, and costs ~$5.

Replaced mine twice after it's not replaceable anymore (overheated I think) - need to replace whole mainboard.

Re: Android O Beta Program

#110

Post by pawadu »

kasabali wrote: post #108
pawadu wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed my point. It doesn't have to be a mainstream kernel. The only important part is that it is a fixed kernel version so drivers and such does not need to be re-written with each new android release.

> It doesn't have to be a mainstream kernel. The only important part is that it is a fixed kernel version This is how it is done already. Google picks a kernel release (historically 3.0, 3.4, 3.10, 3.18, 4.4 etc.) and ports Android patches to that kernel while developing new features as well. Then SoC vendors do their bringups using that kernel tree.

My point was, kernel version should not change with every Android release...
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