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Android O Beta Program

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Re: Android O Beta Program

#91

Post by pawadu »

pas wrote: post #84
forkbomb_ wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real issue for the Nexus 6 is that Qualcomm has completely abandoned their 32-bit mobile platforms. Look for "8084" here: https://wiki.codeaurora.org/xwiki/bin/QAEP/release - the Snapdragon 805 hasn't received a release since August 2016. So, Google did an in-house bringup for 7.0 - and "normal" OEMs aren't able to do that. Qualcomm usually provides a lot of pre-compiled binaries to the OEM, which either require…

And do they need a new kernel so desperately? I don't understand the problems with backward compatibility. They already provide it via the Android SDK (the support library). Java/Dex/Dalvik/ART or whatever it's called now that runs the shit works on Linux 3.0 probably. (Android 2.3 was released with Linux 2.6.35 [+ patches, I assume && hope], and that's currently the lowest supported API Level (that is api level 9)).

This is my mine gripe.

Google should put some resources into kernel development for a year or so.Get the changes they want into Linux 5.0 and make it the android long-term-release kernel. Then no further changes to the kernel unless its 0.0.1 security patches.

Re: Android O Beta Program

#92

Post by denisw »

pas wrote: post #85
on_and_off wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is apple and oranges. The situation is pretty complex but the support libs & play services are available on virtually all devices (API 9+ IIRC, but anything older would not be able to run most modern apps).

Does the same applies to old iPhones? Can the iPhone 5 run the most recent version of let's say the Facebook/Messenger app?

Yes. The iPhone 5 has received iOS 10, so it can run all iOS 10 apps in their most recent versions. There are some (mostly hardware) features that iPhone 5 users don't have access to (e.g. 3D Touch) so they might not be able to use all power features, but that doesn't prevent you from using the complete fully updated app catalog.

As an iPhone 5S user, I don't feel like I'm disadvantaged at all from having a phone that is three generations behind.

Re: Android O Beta Program

#93

Post by ptman »

schwank wrote: post #8

My Nexus 6P died last night after Given the short support curve for most Android devices from Google and especially from third parties, that device is quite likely to be an iPhone. What was unthinkable to me just a few short years ago is now reality... I type this on a MBP and I might be convert my phone platform now as well. A true testament to the constant change in the marketplace, and the need to evaluate based o…

I have some hope for HMD/Nokia Android phones. It seems like they're very vanilla android and have been updated with patches on a quick schedule. But only time will tell.

Re: Android O Beta Program

#94

Post by petre »

fulafel wrote: post #59
jknightco wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to provide a counterpoint: I'm still rocking a 3.5 year old Nexus 5 with almost zero evidence of its age (the battery discharges a bit faster than it used to but it's not noticeable enough to even warrant a new battery).

You have been out of security support for a long time - apps, web pages and video clips can pwn your device.

I'm running Cyanogenmod on the Nexus 5 with dec/16 patchlevel. It comes as a minimal base over which you can install whatever apps you want. You can also install LineageOS or Sailfish OS. This is better than the level of support Google provides.

Re: Android O Beta Program

#95

Post by pas »

denisw wrote: post #92
pas wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the same applies to old iPhones? Can the iPhone 5 run the most recent version of let's say the Facebook/Messenger app?

Yes. The iPhone 5 has received iOS 10, so it can run all iOS 10 apps in their most recent versions. There are some (mostly hardware) features that iPhone 5 users don't have access to (e.g. 3D Touch) so they might not be able to use all power features, but that doesn't prevent you from using the complete fully updated app catalog. As an iPhone 5S user, I don't feel like I'm disadvantaged at all from having a phone tha…

Sorry, I mean to ask about the performance aspect.

But I guess that's up to the developer anyhow.

Thanks for your reply. (A few of my friends also use 5s and they also feel it's still pretty okay.)

Re: Android O Beta Program

#96

Post by forkbomb_ »

pas wrote: post #84
forkbomb_ wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real issue for the Nexus 6 is that Qualcomm has completely abandoned their 32-bit mobile platforms. Look for "8084" here: https://wiki.codeaurora.org/xwiki/bin/QAEP/release - the Snapdragon 805 hasn't received a release since August 2016. So, Google did an in-house bringup for 7.0 - and "normal" OEMs aren't able to do that. Qualcomm usually provides a lot of pre-compiled binaries to the OEM, which either require…

And do they need a new kernel so desperately? I don't understand the problems with backward compatibility. They already provide it via the Android SDK (the support library). Java/Dex/Dalvik/ART or whatever it's called now that runs the shit works on Linux 3.0 probably. (Android 2.3 was released with Linux 2.6.35 [+ patches, I assume && hope], and that's currently the lowest supported API Level (that is api level 9)).

The kernel isn't the problem - one of the devices I maintain runs 7.1 (mostly) fine on Linux 3.0[1]. The issues lie in the HALs - which translate between the standard Android camera/sensor/telephony APIs and the vendor's implementation in the kernel. These are device-specific, and usually provided to the OEM by a HW/chipset manufacturer.

Google is generally pretty good about keeping source compatibility, but ABIs change, and sometimes completely unrelated changes break everything for no obvious reason. Some things I've encountered include:

* sensor blobs crashing when using a clang-built libc, but working with a gcc-built one.

* blobs crashing when using jemalloc, but not dlmalloc (dlmalloc was removed with 7.0).

* Vendors introducing hacks in the OS - workarounds to deal with broken HW media encoders (which misinterpret pixel formats), misbehaving GL blobs, or devices which expect one pixel format for their display when the system provides another (e.g. RGB vs BGR).

* closed-source OpenGL drivers which use-after-free - the bug's probably existed since forever, but it only manifests after 7.0.

[1]: https://github.com/LineageOS/android_kernel_samsung_smdk4412...

Re: Android O Beta Program

#97

Post by sdotsen »

Like many previous posters, my N5's battery is starting to die. I've changed it once and it hasn't helped. Otherwise, it's a decent phone and it has served me very well. I've thought about possibly going to the new OnePlus when it's released, BUT the lack of "long-term" support (more than 2yrs) bothers me.

I bought an iPhone 7 just to give it a whirl, but I eventually gave it to the wife. There's something about that back button that I can't let go.

Re: Android O Beta Program

#98

Post by forkbomb_ »

pawadu wrote: post #91
pas wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And do they need a new kernel so desperately? I don't understand the problems with backward compatibility. They already provide it via the Android SDK (the support library). Java/Dex/Dalvik/ART or whatever it's called now that runs the shit works on Linux 3.0 probably. (Android 2.3 was released with Linux 2.6.35 [+ patches, I assume && hope], and that's currently the lowest supported API Level (that is api level 9)).

This is my mine gripe. Google should put some resources into kernel development for a year or so.Get the changes they want into Linux 5.0 and make it the android long-term-release kernel. Then no further changes to the kernel unless its 0.0.1 security patches.

Google does this already[1]. As far as I know, it's possible to boot Android off a mainline kernel - the main obstacle is the lack of drivers in the upstream kernel. Certainly, a lot of the SoCs (especially in older phones) can _boot_ from mainline. Maybe you could even get a serial console, or a picture of tux on the screen. But the OEMs don't really have any incentive to upstream their drivers (or port older platforms to newer kernels) - why bother?

Probably the only instance that I'm aware of where an OEM has actually mainlined support for their own mobile devices is Samsung with some of their Tizen reference devices - "trats"[2], "trats2"[3] (which is pretty much identical to the Galaxy S3), "tm2" and "tm2e"[4]. Of course, these will probably never gain support for certain things like 3D acceleration and the modem in mainline, but it's certainly a good start. (Note: a few Nexus devices seem to have mainline DTS[5], but I'm not sure how complete they are).

[1]: https://android.googlesource.com/kernel/common/ [2]: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/arch/arm/boot/... [3]: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/arch/arm/boot/... [4]: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/tree/master/arch/arm64/boo... [5]: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/tree/master/arch/arm64/boo...

Re: Android O Beta Program

#99

Post by MichaelGG »

microtonal wrote: post #75
MichaelGG wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blu makes seemingly decent phones at the 100-250$ range, unlocked, on Amazon. Cameras don't seem amazing, but neither is the Nexus 5 camera.

You mean this Blu?: https://arstechnica.com/security/2016/11/chinese-company-ins...

Yep. Great phones. As far as 3rd party shit doing stuff... that's the price of using non-Google phones I guess. Plus the battery lasts longer than Google's flagship phones (I've gotta charge a Nexus 5 2 or 3 times a day, it's stupid what tiny batteries the big players ship.)

Re: Android O Beta Program

#100

Post by endorphone »

kristianp wrote: post #47
endorphone wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Nexus 4 handed down to my son recently stopped working when he dropped it, smashing the screen. Gave him my cast off Nexus 5 that was still storming great. My wife's Nexus 5 was working perfectly, though we replaced it with an iPhone 7 (to her great dismay, it turns out). My own Nexus 6P has worked perfectly, but for dev reasons I replaced it with a GS8 (which is simply a stunning device in every way, including the…

Why would you do data churning on a phone over a PC or laptop? Not being rude, I'm curious.

I work on video products which entails an enormous amount of very high bitrate mobile video. Maybe it's a unwarranted fear, but I always feel like I'm killing the onboard flash so using a disposable SD card is always just comforting.
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