151–160 of 436 posts
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> Gov intervention is probably needed. The government interventino has been the problem, as you just exposed. Let people default on their student debt with 5 years of bad credit, and colleges will fix themselves.
They will more likely ask for a bailout.
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Yes. Pettis. Anyone on HN commenting on economics must read Pettis. In very brief his simplified thesis: One country's public policy decision to subsidize export-led growth requires another country's public policy decision to also subsidize that growth through import consumption and debt. The accounts must balance.
I agree! His simple-but-not-too-simple model to explain international macro economics is really great, and happens to explain a lot of the dynamics of what we see these days. It's appealing intellectually; I like small and simple models. I suppose if we see a major dislocation in the Chinese economy in the next 2-3 years, his model will be extra-confirmed. (That's a major point he makes on his blog.)
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The government isn't running the schools (most of the time), it's just underwriting an infinite amount of loans for students to take and go to private companies with. So if you're a University you know a) students think they should pay however much it costs to attend and b) they have an unlimited amount of funding to do so with. Thus ITT Tech.
Sure but we're talking about rights, not operations.
and a nation paying highly unreasonable and ballooning sums of money so that a functional literate adult can obtain an education that rarely leads to 10x better outcomes
I don't know if it's a "bubble" (I am not qualified to say that), but I can't imagine that the current trend with student loans will continue. Looking at the numbers for someone entering college in 2017, it feels nearly predatory what a good portion of private and out of state colleges are charging. Even with financial aid, $30-40k a year for 4-5 years is insane. I was fortunate enough to have parents who made saving…
University is ripe for disruption. Not only has the prices spiraled out of control, no time in history has good quality information has been more available on the Internet. When I was in school, when YouTube was new, I would watch well crafted lectures from top tier professors for free. This allowed me to get a better handle on my brick and mortar class. The problem is the career value of a degree has not diminished,…
Education economics is messed up. Where else does one pay lots and lots of money for something that is essentially freely available?
I don't know if it's a "bubble" (I am not qualified to say that), but I can't imagine that the current trend with student loans will continue. Looking at the numbers for someone entering college in 2017, it feels nearly predatory what a good portion of private and out of state colleges are charging. Even with financial aid, $30-40k a year for 4-5 years is insane. I was fortunate enough to have parents who made saving…
University is ripe for disruption. Not only has the prices spiraled out of control, no time in history has good quality information has been more available on the Internet. When I was in school, when YouTube was new, I would watch well crafted lectures from top tier professors for free. This allowed me to get a better handle on my brick and mortar class. The problem is the career value of a degree has not diminished,…
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I truly don't understand the USA sometimes. Don't you guys know that in Europe higher education is free? Well where I'm from there was a very low nominal cost but my father was a public servant so cost was waived, I literally studied CS for 0 cost. And these countries are able to afford it all! Magic! I don't understand how people in USA are not aware of this and literally rioting in the streets. At the very least sw…
> Don't you guys know that in Europe higher education is free? Nothing is free. Someone is paying for it.
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Because it doesn't necessarily have to cost that much. There are world-class universities in Europe, Australia, Japan, etc. that don't cost $60k+ a year.
Eh, I tend to disagree. Great university's for sure, but the large majority of universities (particularly those accessible to anybody) reside in the United States. Now, I do agree that a university education doesn't have to cost as much as it does, but the scale of world-class universities in the rest of the world is dwarfed by the United States. Maybe students should not stop coming to US schools if they cost so muc…
There are 4,140 in the US. https://www.infoplease.com/us/higher-education/number-us-col...
There are about 4,000 in Europe. http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=URISERV:c...
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Because it doesn't necessarily have to cost that much. There are world-class universities in Europe, Australia, Japan, etc. that don't cost $60k+ a year.
> Because it doesn't necessarily have to cost that much. Makes no sense to me. Any person who thinks something is more expensive than it can be; can start his own college and win over the market while making a lot of money. How can a person claim to know the value of other people's labor ?
No, because there are enormous barriers to entry. We can, however, see that many other countries have similarly good universities that don't cost as much per pupil.
> How can a person claim to know the value of other people's labor ?
Every person who has ever hired someone does that.
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The rationale is that you can't take away an education the way you can repo a house or car. That and something about doctors borrowing a couple hundred K, then declaring bankruptcy to discharge it after graduation.
And yet, nothing prevents me from maxing out my credit cards, and spending it all on whiskey and limousine rides... Or totaling my car (While only having liability insurance). Lenders charge a premium over the prime interest rate because of the risk that they will never get their money back. Student loans are backed by the federal government - there is zero risk for these lenders. They seem to be under the impression…
And it should be dischargable.
But of course, we are living in a country that is controled by fabulously wealthy and powerful individuals and their businesses.
The education lobby, like any other lobby, successfully petitioned the government to make student loans a contract in blood.
It is deeply irrational, unfair, and leads to inflation and rampant misallocation of resources.
But the education cartel and its alligned politicians don't give one fuck about that. In fact, this was the intended outcome.
They count the money and if it ever breaks, hey, they're rich!
I don't know if it's a "bubble" (I am not qualified to say that), but I can't imagine that the current trend with student loans will continue. Looking at the numbers for someone entering college in 2017, it feels nearly predatory what a good portion of private and out of state colleges are charging. Even with financial aid, $30-40k a year for 4-5 years is insane. I was fortunate enough to have parents who made saving…
I truly don't understand the USA sometimes. Don't you guys know that in Europe higher education is free? Well where I'm from there was a very low nominal cost but my father was a public servant so cost was waived, I literally studied CS for 0 cost. And these countries are able to afford it all! Magic! I don't understand how people in USA are not aware of this and literally rioting in the streets. At the very least sw…
Second, you can also study CS for free in the United States or at a heavy scholarship. Large state schools subsidize a lot of engineers in their educational pursuit so long as you achieve good grades, or score well on entrance exams.
The primary issue we're facing is that we, as a society, decided that in order to obtain an ok-paying job you must attend a university, even when the skills for the job have nothing to do with your education aside from genera knowledge increase. Because of this fact, and the large number of students seeking entrance to university (to get a job) we find that we have far too many students who want to attend college who should not be attending college and they get funneled into degree programs that, while valuable, are not valuable for work. The students that have exceptional need, or exceptional skill, are almost always given a full tuition scholarship so long as they make good grades.
Furthermore, by any measure that matters, the universities in the United States are the best in the world, bar none. So the competition to attend, places further pressure on those seeking degrees that do not immediately translate into a high paying job. We've made a mistake, as a society, by emphasizing "go to college" over "go to trade school".
The rest of your tax argument is based on not much. Paying high taxes is not indicative of anything. In many cases (in my opinion) government does a great job with services. Areas like healthcare are a prime candidate for government take over, but university education is a far more complicated situation. As somebody else mentioned, most student loans are for under $20,000. And a $6,000 deductible? Idk. I have a great healthcare plan where I don't pay much out of pocket.
There is a good podcast about the cost of healthcare but I can't recal the name. But basically, the US spends far more than any country whether you consider it as a nationalized system or a free market system. It's far more complicated than a simple "pay $5,000 more in taxes" argument.