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US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

nytimes.com

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Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#91

Post by [deleted] »

ericd wrote: post #62
secabeen wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no. The lecture part can certainly be disrupted, but the most successful learning experiences I had in university were during face-to-face problem solving sessions with other classmates, small group discussion, and participating in a community of learners of a shared subject. There's also the challenges of learning that occurs through labs and other manipulation of the physical world that is hard to replicate…

Maybe you could set up a cheap hybrid - get students together in one place to work together on MOOCs, and have some strict admission standards to ensure that the students are high quality. This would be a draw to high quality students, and help replace some of the signaling value of elite schools.

[deleted]

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#92

Post by shriphani »

conanbatt wrote: post #68
shriphani wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found this comment on Quora: Through 1992, the top 50 colleges in the USA got together each year to collude on: amount of tuition base salary for assistant professors preventing any bidding wars for applicants Then the Federal government sued and put a stop to that. However, by that point the tuition was way out of whack and the private elite colleges are still allowed to increase tuition at a rate that is above th…

> Gov intervention is probably needed. The government interventino has been the problem, as you just exposed. Let people default on their student debt with 5 years of bad credit, and colleges will fix themselves.

They will more likely ask for a bailout.

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#93

Post by gregable »

austenallred wrote: post #70
manacit wrote: post #10

I don't know if it's a "bubble" (I am not qualified to say that), but I can't imagine that the current trend with student loans will continue. Looking at the numbers for someone entering college in 2017, it feels nearly predatory what a good portion of private and out of state colleges are charging. Even with financial aid, $30-40k a year for 4-5 years is insane. I was fortunate enough to have parents who made saving…

It sure feels like a bubble to me. I don't know how many friends I have with six figures of student loans and no career, but it's a lot. Considering that those loans don't even go away with bankruptcy, it's waaaay too many. I've noticed that younger students are starting to realize how much risk there is in something like that and shy away when my generation didn't. Maybe it's that I grew up in a "striving" middle cl…

The problem with this incentive is that it would encourage the university to only accept applicants who have a good financial background to begin with. For example, applicants whose parents have significant assets. We don't like to admit it, but this would probably be as useful a predictor as to the student's income as the quality of education.

If universities started choosing applicants this way, we end up with a system that reinforces generational wealth, rather than lifting folks out of poverty. No easy solutions here.

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#94

Post by austenallred »

gregable wrote: post #93
austenallred wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sure feels like a bubble to me. I don't know how many friends I have with six figures of student loans and no career, but it's a lot. Considering that those loans don't even go away with bankruptcy, it's waaaay too many. I've noticed that younger students are starting to realize how much risk there is in something like that and shy away when my generation didn't. Maybe it's that I grew up in a "striving" middle cl…

The problem with this incentive is that it would encourage the university to only accept applicants who have a good financial background to begin with. For example, applicants whose parents have significant assets. We don't like to admit it, but this would probably be as useful a predictor as to the student's income as the quality of education. If universities started choosing applicants this way, we end up with a sy…

They'd be looking to accept the students with the greatest aptitude for a high paying career. There may be some level of correlation, but I highly doubt it's as strong as the ivy leagues would lead you to believe.

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#95

Post by muninn_ »

austenallred wrote: post #83
fratlas wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your last paragraph describes the Australian university system. Government foots the bill to invest in your education, you pay it back gradually (and not until you're earning enough for it not to hurt).

Makes a hell of a lot of sense, to be honest. The problem in the US system is the government feels everyone has a "right" to an education, so it will underwrite an unlimited amount of loans regardless of what you do with them. That pumps the system so full of cash no one is quite sure what to do. They just keep raising prices and people keep coming, because what are you going to do, not go to college? Even after fund…

Why would this be any different than a right to, say, health care? Why even pay for k-12?

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#96

Post by nugget »

irrational wrote: post #40
subterfudge4 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one thing about USA I do not understand. Why pay $200K for a degree that can not pay that money off in couple of years ? Just why ?

Because there are almost no jobs available that pay more than minimum wage that do not require a college degree.

America is one of the most entrepreneurial countries on earth. There are plenty of fields that you can enter with no college degree and build your way up to a great living. Even for very "white collar" jobs we are starting to (slowly) move away from a pedigree-based economy towards a skills-based economy.

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#97

Post by velodrome »

conanbatt wrote: post #68
shriphani wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found this comment on Quora: Through 1992, the top 50 colleges in the USA got together each year to collude on: amount of tuition base salary for assistant professors preventing any bidding wars for applicants Then the Federal government sued and put a stop to that. However, by that point the tuition was way out of whack and the private elite colleges are still allowed to increase tuition at a rate that is above th…

> Gov intervention is probably needed. The government interventino has been the problem, as you just exposed. Let people default on their student debt with 5 years of bad credit, and colleges will fix themselves.

> Let people default on their student debt with 5 years of bad credit, and colleges will fix themselves.

How can the colleges fix themselves? They are not the one's giving out the loans. Maybe that's how it should be... It forces the colleges to have a vested interest in their students' future.

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#98

Post by austenallred »

muninn_ wrote: post #95
austenallred wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes a hell of a lot of sense, to be honest. The problem in the US system is the government feels everyone has a "right" to an education, so it will underwrite an unlimited amount of loans regardless of what you do with them. That pumps the system so full of cash no one is quite sure what to do. They just keep raising prices and people keep coming, because what are you going to do, not go to college? Even after fund…

Why would this be any different than a right to, say, health care? Why even pay for k-12?

The government isn't running the schools (most of the time), it's just underwriting an infinite amount of loans for students to take and go to private companies with. So if you're a University you know a) students think they should pay however much it costs to attend and b) they have an unlimited amount of funding to do so with.

Thus ITT Tech.

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#99

Post by muninn_ »

ceejayoz wrote: post #73
subterfudge4 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is worth it then why complain so much ?

Because it doesn't necessarily have to cost that much. There are world-class universities in Europe, Australia, Japan, etc. that don't cost $60k+ a year.

Eh, I tend to disagree. Great university's for sure, but the large majority of universities (particularly those accessible to anybody) reside in the United States. Now, I do agree that a university education doesn't have to cost as much as it does, but the scale of world-class universities in the rest of the world is dwarfed by the United States. Maybe students should not stop coming to US schools if they cost so much, as well. Idk?

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#100

Post by austenallred »

ericd wrote: post #62
secabeen wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no. The lecture part can certainly be disrupted, but the most successful learning experiences I had in university were during face-to-face problem solving sessions with other classmates, small group discussion, and participating in a community of learners of a shared subject. There's also the challenges of learning that occurs through labs and other manipulation of the physical world that is hard to replicate…

Maybe you could set up a cheap hybrid - get students together in one place to work together on MOOCs, and have some strict admission standards to ensure that the students are high quality. This would be a draw to high quality students, and help replace some of the signaling value of elite schools.

Yeah, nothing that was listed would be difficult to replicate at high scale and high quality
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