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Chelsea Manning released from prison

cnn.com

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Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#221

Post by sjsihnss »

cjslep wrote: post #187
SteveGerencser wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in my case, quite false as a conservative with many conservative friends that disagree with your anecdote. This is always the problem, personal anecdotes rarely equal data.

The problem here (and the reason you are getting downvoted, I believe) is you think your anecdote of your friends' opinions trumps falcolas' anecdote about his/her family as untrue, instead of imagining the colorful world it is with various shades of conservatism living side by side. For what its worth, I have family that believe like grandparent's family. Your anecdotes cannot convince them or me what their beliefs…

We know the real reason for down votes is it's voicing support for conservative views and questions the HN group think bubble.

You can dress it up with whatever fancy logic you want, HN commenters are as bias and unthinking as any others.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#222

Post by [deleted] »

skrebbel wrote: post #216
vivekd wrote: post #208

I disagree with what she did, she probably made the world a much less safe place and caused thousands if not millions of deaths through wikileaks role in inciting the Arab spring. Still I'm convinced she did it with the best of intentions and the genuine belief that she would make the world more peaceful and open. I guess she was naive so I'm glad to see her released early.

This is the attitude that keeps dictators re-elected. Vote for stability!

[deleted]

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#223

Post by Raphmedia »

orblivion wrote: post #218
CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple: A person's gender is a part of their personal identity. Chelsea Manning says that their gender is female, even if their biological sex is male. As a consequence of respect for their personal identity as a member of society (and NOT fixating on their sex organs, which is frankly creepy), most people will refer to a trans* person as the gender they identify as, not the sex they were born with. Or, if uncertain…

When we refer to things, we use words that convey our perception of them. People identify themselves a certain way, and I can identify them a certain way too. The notion of someone's gender has relevance to others. It doesn't make sense to go purely based on their own self perception. For me, I tend to assign gender by sex. I don't want to disrespect myself by saying something I don't believe. On the other hand I don…

> When we refer to things, we use words that convey our perception of them.

We are not talking about cross-dressers. We are talking about transgender individuals. You wouldn't even be able to notice them standing in front of you once their transition is complete.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#224

Post by aoeusnth1 »

diet_mtn_dew wrote: post #205
lucb1e wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unlawfully killed trans people As a Dutch person I was very confused for a minute, but then I remembered there are indeed lawfully killed people in other countries. (And while writing this, I remembered euthanesia is legal here, but that's not killing in my mind because the person chose it for themselves and the given reason cannot be an external, solvable condition.)

There are also accidental deaths, in which a person is killed, but it is not ruled unlawful.

Looking through the list, they're not considering suicide as unlawful.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#225

Post by aoeusnth1 »

cmdrfred wrote: post #106
jacquesm wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trans people are safe in very few places in the world.

No place is safe considering the majority violent cause of death among trans people is suicide.

I wonder why that is... Maybe the social isolation and pervasive hatred and mocking attitude of society has something to do with it?

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#226

Post by LyndsySimon »

ceejayoz wrote: post #59
myaccountzz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean it's pretty obvious that it was a political murder at this point. Of course liberal HN will down-vote you even if there was video evidence.

Uh huh. http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/16/media/seth-rich-family-respo...

It's worth noting that Brad Bauman, who is acting as spokesperson for the Rich family, is a PR expert with a long history with the DNC and supporting Progressive causes.

If he's being paid by someone closely affiliated with the Democratic Party - and I don't know that he is, I'm building an air castle here - then distancing the Rich family from WikiLeaks would be in his best interest.

This seems likely to me, as per the CNN article you linked:

> Wheeler was put in touch with the Rich family through Dallas businessman Ed Butowsky, who told CNN he had offered to pay any bills associated with the investigation.

> "You have a family who can't afford a PI. Their son was killed. So I offered to help out," Butowsky said.

If they truly couldn't afford a PI, then I doubt they could afford a top-tier PR professional to speak on their behalf.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#227

Post by pvg »

coldtea wrote: post #203
pvg wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would one know? Because people who would be targets of political murders don't die at a statistically unusual rate. Unless you think they are also being secretly replaced with more pliant clones/cyborgs or we are all just copied over to a less unruly simulation. Then it would be harder to know.

> Because people who would be targets of political murders don't die at a statistically unusual rate. They don't have to be well known people that you would identify as targets. In fact those would be the worst to target. They could be potential whistleblowers you never learned of, for example. That said, sticking to well known people that could be targets, there's a large variety of those to e.g. MLK Jr, Malcom X, J…

These are political assassinations but they are assassinations by crazies. If you think these are government plots or that the man is secretly sending ninjas to rub out potential whistleblowers, you have to come up with some evidence otherwise it's just conspiracy theorizing. We might as well talk of alien abductions.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#228

Post by CiPHPerCoder »

orblivion wrote: post #218
CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple: A person's gender is a part of their personal identity. Chelsea Manning says that their gender is female, even if their biological sex is male. As a consequence of respect for their personal identity as a member of society (and NOT fixating on their sex organs, which is frankly creepy), most people will refer to a trans* person as the gender they identify as, not the sex they were born with. Or, if uncertain…

When we refer to things, we use words that convey our perception of them. People identify themselves a certain way, and I can identify them a certain way too. The notion of someone's gender has relevance to others. It doesn't make sense to go purely based on their own self perception. For me, I tend to assign gender by sex. I don't want to disrespect myself by saying something I don't believe. On the other hand I don…

> So for now my approach is to sidestep the issue and refer to all trans people with "they".

I do the same, but also for cis people. It makes life simpler.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#230

Post by tanderson92 »

sjsihnss wrote: post #221
cjslep wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here (and the reason you are getting downvoted, I believe) is you think your anecdote of your friends' opinions trumps falcolas' anecdote about his/her family as untrue, instead of imagining the colorful world it is with various shades of conservatism living side by side. For what its worth, I have family that believe like grandparent's family. Your anecdotes cannot convince them or me what their beliefs…

We know the real reason for down votes is it's voicing support for conservative views and questions the HN group think bubble. You can dress it up with whatever fancy logic you want, HN commenters are as bias and unthinking as any others.

The original comment by RcouF1uZ4gsC didn't characterize conservative views or conservative ideology on this issue; they characterized what many people believed.

Empirically, this is true.

If those many people are wrong on net neutrality because they do not understand the issues, why is it that HN commenters are the biased and unthinking ones?

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