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My Family’s Slave

theatlantic.com

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Re: My Family’s Slave

#521

Post by wordupmaking »

baby wrote: post #485
glogla wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Family like this is worth destroying.

Worth thinking about: is it worth destroying a dysfunctional but happy family? Are our own standards for freedom worth enforcing on other people's life? I'm also thinking about that last child in Arrested Development. A lot of families and people are dysfunctional. But are we functional enough to tell them what to do?

> dysfunctional but happy

That is an oxymoron. When someone is "happy" to live in the rain and snow on concrete without a roof, because some abuser told them if they move from there, the world will eat them and torture them in hell forever, they're not actually happy, they're trapped in a shit situation by the lie that any attempt to free themselves from it would make it worse. The fact that what they feel is happiness makes this worse rather than better. We can forgive the abused for not knowing better, but we can't stand by idly and pretend that's their free choice without becoming guilty.

> Are our own standards for freedom worth enforcing on other people's life?

Yes. If you disagree, and expect that to be any more than wind to my ears, you're just trying to force your standards for freedom on others, so your own argument defeats itself before it even hits the ground.

> A lot of families and people are dysfunctional. But are we functional enough to tell them what to do?

Same thing: Are you functional enough to tell me I'm not?

Re: My Family’s Slave

#524

Post by bbctol »

anovikov wrote: post #383
creepydata wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>neither men nor women really have the option of just "being a housewife." We kind of both have to work....in most marriages, both people have to work. Says who? Sure if you take out a fat mortgage and car loans that require two incomes to repay then, sure, you need two incomes. But you can also just choose to live in a smaller house and drive cheaper cars instead. The issue is the lifestyle inflation that comes with…

I think you are typing this sitting at your comfortable 1% Valley workplace. Nowhere in the world does $55K a year before tax provide anywhere like 'good life'. It means endless misery and generational psychological poverty passed on to your children. Only reason of doing it is if your desire to exert psychological pressure on your wife is greater than even desire to consume. It simply doesn't sound healthy, and it i…

Holy crap, dude, I make $35k a year and my life is fine. What on earth were you spending money on (10 years ago!) that you were miserable spending 60,000 dollars a year?

Re: My Family’s Slave

#525

Post by MockObject »

abalashov wrote: post #476
MockObject wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't permitted to go back home and sleep on the weekends? Why not?

What is this home of which you speak?

The place that they sleep during the weekdays. Or do all the maids always sleep on the street?

Re: My Family’s Slave

#526

Post by erikb »

achou wrote: post #141

Truly remarkable story. One thing that struck me is that Lola did so much of the work of a traditional mother's role: raising the kids, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and even providing emotional support. The mother had to take on a traditional father's role in bringing home an income. And the actual father - well, he did neither role and seemed to just freeload, gamble, abuse, and finally disappear. All of the work in…

Well, even the boss you have a lawful signed contract with would take your free work without much complaint.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#527

Post by andrepd »

anovikov wrote: post #383
creepydata wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>neither men nor women really have the option of just "being a housewife." We kind of both have to work....in most marriages, both people have to work. Says who? Sure if you take out a fat mortgage and car loans that require two incomes to repay then, sure, you need two incomes. But you can also just choose to live in a smaller house and drive cheaper cars instead. The issue is the lifestyle inflation that comes with…

I think you are typing this sitting at your comfortable 1% Valley workplace. Nowhere in the world does $55K a year before tax provide anywhere like 'good life'. It means endless misery and generational psychological poverty passed on to your children. Only reason of doing it is if your desire to exert psychological pressure on your wife is greater than even desire to consume. It simply doesn't sound healthy, and it i…

What? Are you for real? This a very clueless and entitled thing to say. I'll just leave this here: the world median income is less than $3k. Maybe reflect on this for a moment.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#528

Post by weberc2 »

justinpombrio wrote: post #384
weberc2 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife has always had traditionally-feminine work preferences, but she's felt a lot of shame from her more left-leaning friends and coworkers (we're both moderate liberals). Similarly, my office is very liberal, and I often feel a bit judged if I mention that my wife cooked my lunch or otherwise mention that my wife's hobbies are traditionally feminine. Ironically, our conservative friends and family have never said…

> Ironically, our conservative friends and family have never said a word about whether she works or tends home; they're very laissez-faire about the matter. The fair comparison would be to see how they reacted if your roles were reversed: if she worked and you made her lunch.

First off, this isn't meant to generalize to the broader population of conservatives and liberals, and the statistically insignificant sample size is the number one reason why this anecdote would be unfair for such a purpose. That said, if my conservative acquaintances are more tolerant of a "left-of-center" arrangement than my liberal acquaintances, why would it be more fair to push the comparison further left?

Conservatives are supposed to be the ones that pressure people into gender roles, and liberals are supposed to be tolerant of all lifestyles. What point would be made if liberals were tolerant of a very, very non-traditional relationship, and our conservative friends were uncomfortable? That both groups have gender roles which they use social pressure to enforce? That the left isn't actually more tolerant than the right? That liberals have enjoyed an undeserved positive stereotype?

Re: My Family’s Slave

#529

Post by kazagistar »

lettergram wrote: post #405
int_19h wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The left is not a hivemind. There are people who self-identify as liberals but not progressives, and there are people who self-identify as progressives but not liberals, and there's those who mix and match.

Ive actually noticed that really there appears to be a pretty interesting split between progressives and conservatives. Leaving the middle "liberals" (really from both sides) caught in an awkward situation. For example, being liberal usually implies greater freedoms, such as being pro-choice. However, it can also be pro-gun ownership, or anti-war, pro-research, etc. To me that's the dichotomy the U.S. is facing is re…

The libertarians and socialists will both sometimes disagree with the social progressives, but disagree on most everything else. We need at least 6 or 7 parties to even come close, but under first past the post, it's impossible.

Personally, I would prioritize extensive political reform and reconstruction, but I fear the level of financial capture and constitution worship in the United States makes thus impossible.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#530

Post by bubbleRefuge »

BurningFrog wrote: post #372
throwaway66494 wrote: post #216

My family adopted my female cousin nearly 30 years ago from Guatemala. The country was in civil war at the time so bringing her to the U.S. was in her best interest. Unfortunately my mother and aunt (sisters of her birth father) kept her so locked down that she is effectively a slave. My aunt hasn't worked in decades because my little sister has always signed every paycheck over to my aunt. After working for nearly 2…

The big unknown here seems to be her immigration status. Your family actually may well not know it. What her actual status is in the eyes of Uncle Sam, and what can be done to possibly fix it should be easily discovered by contacting your nearest immigration lawyer. The first consultation is maybe $100 (long time since I dealt with this), and then they can tell you what the options and costs are. Once the immigration…

I would think fleeing a life of slavery is a good argument for asylum.
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