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Chelsea Manning released from prison

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Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean it's pretty obvious that it was a political murder at this point. Of course liberal HN will down-vote you even if there was video evidence.

Uh huh. http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/16/media/seth-rich-family-respo...

All right, is wikileaks also doing that for political reasons? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/10/wikileaks-offers-.... And we're supposed to trust that the family actually knows what really happened?

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Simple: A person's gender is a part of their personal identity. That's an opinion.

That's actually a fact. Gender is defined as: the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones). For most people, your gender and your sex are congruent. For others, it isn't. Even if you don't agree: Why do you care?

Some people care because gender identity is eroding sex based protections. I should think women care a lot that men are now allowed in their spaces based on an internal sense of "gender".

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of it this way: I've perused enough local news comment sections to know that people who are inclined to find Chelsea Manning to be a traitor are also generally more inclined to hate trans people. So, maybe this doesn't increase the risk of her being targeted by trained assassins or government spies, but it does probably increase her risk of being targeted for a hate crime.

>local news comment sections Not exactly a diverse sample of the population.

It's a bit much to expect science-journal standards of rigour in a Hacker News comment. Do you disagree with "people who are inclined to find Chelsea Manning to be a traitor are also generally more inclined to hate trans people"? It seems, at the very least, plausible.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#74
post #44

It's so stupid that you can downvote someone when you disagree with him/her on HN. Totally makes the whole website an echo chamber.

I think people are getting a little tired of the Seth Rich conspiracy claims with nothing but circumstantial evidence. It's becoming some kind of rallying cry for trump supporters (who still can't seem to drop the hillary conspiracies for some reason) and what's especially annoying about it is people seem to be taking it as de facto truth despite no real evidence to back up the claim. So I don't think this as much about HN being an echo chamber. You're really not adding to the discussion other than propagating the conspiracy unless you're going to provide some evidence. Conspiracy theories don't really fly on HN.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#75
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's totally relevant. Trans people experience attacks at a much higher rate than the background population.

Can you please provide some data to support this? I am unaware of any crime statistic that has transgender as an attribute. It is very easy to make broad sweeping statements like yours but to be taken seriously the majority of people prefer data to support those accusations.

While demanding data isn't necessarily a bad thing, you can take it overboard. If you state that the world is round, and I demand that you back up your claim with data, am I not being a bit ridiculous?

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#76

While not rotting in prison is great - isn't it strange that Manning was pardoned, while there are a lot more pardon deserving persons among the other whistleblowers of the era. Nothing good or interesting came from those leaks. And they were legitimate threat to US security. And Snowden ones were responsible, curated and only in the areas where rights of US citizens were infringed. And yet he is stranded in Russia (…

To be able to get the same treatment as Manning, Snowden would first have to get to the US, go through a trial, get convicted, serve a couple of years in prison, and then get his sentence commuted.

Snowden thinks (and I personally agree) that the second step (of him going through a trial) would not work, because he wouldn't get a fair trial, and I agree with him.

And, as was pointed out to you, Manning hasn't been cleared of claims that she made. She still made a crime according the court and was still convicted of that crime. It's just that her punishment got reduced and she is now free.

It's nowhere even near the similar situation. Snowden's case is basically in the same stage where Manning's case was when she leaked the documents, so somewhere around 2011. Manning pleaded guilty to the charges in court in early 2013. Snowden still didn't go through that process.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Simple: A person's gender is a part of their personal identity. That's an opinion.

That's actually a fact. Gender is defined as: the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones). For most people, your gender and your sex are congruent. For others, it isn't. Even if you don't agree: Why do you care?

The definition of gender is not universally agreed upon. And it's pretty obvious that that definition is not the one the person you are replying to uses.

Definitions are also not fact, by definition.

There are plenty of valid arguments for calling trans people the gender they want to be. This isn't one since it isn't going to convince anyone who doesn't already agree with you.

Edit: The why do you care part is a valid argument, was addressing the rest of your comment

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually a fact. Gender is defined as: the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones). For most people, your gender and your sex are congruent. For others, it isn't. Even if you don't agree: Why do you care?

Some people care because gender identity is eroding sex based protections. I should think women care a lot that men are now allowed in their spaces based on an internal sense of "gender".

> Some people care because gender identity is eroding sex based protections.

What do your greater political fears have to do with treating others with respect?

> I should think women care a lot that men are now allowed in their spaces based on an internal sense of "gender".

Are you talking about that bathroom debacle? I've got a simple solution: http://scott.arciszewski.me/blog/2017/03/trans-bathroom-righ...

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually a fact. Gender is defined as: the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones). For most people, your gender and your sex are congruent. For others, it isn't. Even if you don't agree: Why do you care?

Some people care because gender identity is eroding sex based protections. I should think women care a lot that men are now allowed in their spaces based on an internal sense of "gender".

I should think women care a lot that men are now allowed in their spaces based on an internal sense of "gender".

No. We don't. Transwomen are welcome in our bathrooms, locker rooms, and spas.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#80
post #18

Extremely rare and almost exclusive leftists killing people on the right. Like the JFK assassination (JFK was a conservative)

Ah yes, the radical liberal John Wilkes Booth killing the extremely conservative Abraham Lincoln.

And the radical liberal neo-nazi OKC bomber...
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