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Chelsea Manning released from prison

cnn.com

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Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#31

Post by lojack »

grandalf wrote: post #25
adamnemecek wrote: post #10

"During one of his final acts in office, President Barack Obama commuted Manning's sentence in January, thereby giving her an early release date." For anyone else wondering where this is coming from.

While I'm very pleased that President Obama commuted the sentence of Ms. Manning, I'm also disappointed that he did not do more to change the policy about classifying information that allows classification to be used as a form of propaganda (by classifying the stuff that contradicts the message we're meant to believe about a war).

Don't mean to be a pendant, but he didn't pardon her. Officially her punishment was commuted. The former forgives the crime and the latter simply reduces the penalty for the crime.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#34

Post by DamnYuppie »

loeg wrote: post #8
logicallee wrote: post #5

[withdrawn]

It's totally relevant. Trans people experience attacks at a much higher rate than the background population.

Can you please provide some data to support this? I am unaware of any crime statistic that has transgender as an attribute. It is very easy to make broad sweeping statements like yours but to be taken seriously the majority of people prefer data to support those accusations.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#36

Post by gpm »

interfixus wrote: post #23

This person is male. Could we please avoid the biologically nonsensical charade of referring to him as"she"?

Debating whether they are male or female seems rather pointless to me, it's a question of definitions.

If they want to be referred to as a she, I don't see that it costs us anything to comply with their desire though... so I do.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#37

Post by CiPHPerCoder »

interfixus wrote: post #28
CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a word: No.

Then could the downvoters please explain to me how this male is supposed to be female?

Simple: A person's gender is a part of their personal identity. Chelsea Manning says that their gender is female, even if their biological sex is male.

As a consequence of respect for their personal identity as a member of society (and NOT fixating on their sex organs, which is frankly creepy), most people will refer to a trans* person as the gender they identify as, not the sex they were born with.

Or, if uncertain (because of genderfluidity and new pronouns like Xe/Xir/whatever), just using "singular they" and moving on with your life.

It's a polite society thing.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#38

Post by masklinn »

panzer_wyrm wrote: post #21

While not rotting in prison is great - isn't it strange that Manning was pardoned, while there are a lot more pardon deserving persons among the other whistleblowers of the era. Nothing good or interesting came from those leaks. And they were legitimate threat to US security. And Snowden ones were responsible, curated and only in the areas where rights of US citizens were infringed. And yet he is stranded in Russia (…

> While not rotting in prison is great - isn't it strange that Manning was pardoned

Manning was not pardoned, her sentence was commuted. She is still considered guilty on all grounds on which she was convicted.

> And Snowden ones were responsible, curated and only in the areas where rights of US citizens were infringed.

> And yet he is stranded in Russia (1/6 of the world, so not bad).

> What is the lesson - if you leak, leak more severe?

Snowden has not been sitting a in a US prison for years (in pretty difficult conditions) after a sentencing which many found excessive and unfair.

So the lesson is rather more "get sentenced to rank reduction to E-1, forfeiting of pay and allowances, dishonorably discharged and 35 years in prison and you may see the last part reduced to only ~6 years afterwards".

Oh don't forget the 6 years include a significant duration as POI at Quantico:

* checks by guards every five minutes

* not allowed to sleep between 5 am (7 am on weekends) and 8 pm

* required to remain visible at all times, no sheets, pillow built into mattress, and blanket designed for unshreddability

* sleeping attire limited to boxer shorts

* 6 × 12 ft (1.8 x 3.6 m) with no window, containing a bed, toilet and sink

* allowed to walk for up to one hour a day, meals in the cell, shackled during lawyer visits

Not to disparage Snowden, and his reasons for not coming back seem sound, but political asylum in Russia isn't exactly Manning's last 6 years.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#39

Post by grandalf »

lojack wrote: post #31
grandalf wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm very pleased that President Obama commuted the sentence of Ms. Manning, I'm also disappointed that he did not do more to change the policy about classifying information that allows classification to be used as a form of propaganda (by classifying the stuff that contradicts the message we're meant to believe about a war).

Don't mean to be a pendant, but he didn't pardon her. Officially her punishment was commuted. The former forgives the crime and the latter simply reduces the penalty for the crime.

Appreciate the correction. I knew the correct status but was multitasking and got sloppy. Corrected my comment.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#40

Post by lojack »

panzer_wyrm wrote: post #21

While not rotting in prison is great - isn't it strange that Manning was pardoned, while there are a lot more pardon deserving persons among the other whistleblowers of the era. Nothing good or interesting came from those leaks. And they were legitimate threat to US security. And Snowden ones were responsible, curated and only in the areas where rights of US citizens were infringed. And yet he is stranded in Russia (…

I responded to a different thread with this, but she wasn't actually pardoned. Her sentence was commuted, or shortened. Formally this means she hasn't been forgiven for the crimes.
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